Gun Registration in LV?

[t11spanner]

I made a quick stop in Vegas last week, and stopped by the BASS Pro Shop.

Nice place......

I noticed a young man purchasing a handgun, and also noticed that he was filling out a "Gun Registration Form".

Is there a gun registration program in Vegas?

I found that very interesting....

Carl in Winnemucca

[junglebob]

They used to register handguns in Chicago. Local ordinances require it. Then they decided to stop registering them. The ordinaces are still in place, so the only legal handguns are those registered years ago. Though I live in the "right denied state" I am thankful that I am over 300 miles away from the foolishness that they call "common sense gun laws" in Chicago.

[Swift locksmith]

Gun registration is mandatory in Clark County, if you purchase a handgun through a FFL it is registered with Metro before it is transferred to you. Private gun sales must be registered within 72 hours, which is also the waiting period for non-CCW permit holders.

[t11spanner]

So, if I come down for the gun show this weekend, do I have to register any handgun I purchase, even though I live in Humboldt County?

[Swift locksmith]

You'll have to appeal to VegasGeorge, who knows alot more about this than me, but as far as I know anyone who plans on carrying in clark county for more than 72 hours must register. However, you are only breaking the law if you get caught...... ( Firmly toungue in cheek...) If you have a NV CCW and you are already qualified for your gun then they can kiss off.... The "how they get around the state no 'pre-emption' laws is beyond me.

[VegasGeorge]

So, if I come down for the gun show this weekend, do I have to register any handgun I purchase, even though I live in Humboldt County?

This is what the Clark County Ordinance says:

12.04.110 Registration of pistols within seventy-two hours.

Any resident of the county receiving title to a pistol, whether by purchase, gift, or any other transfer, and whether from a dealer or from any other person, shall, within seventy-two hours of such receipt, personally appear at the county sheriff’s office, together with the pistol, for the purpose of registering the same with the sheriff. It shall be the duty of the sheriff to register the pistol, and he may, and is hereby authorized to cooperate in any manner he sees fit with other law enforcement agencies, and with licensed dealers, relative to registration of pistols, so that efficient registration shall be secured at minimum cost and duplication. (Ord. 3571 § 3, 2007: Ord. 242 § 11, 1965)

However, it is not enforced as written. I just bought a new revolver, and the dealer filled out the Blue Gun Registration Card and gave it to me, so I didn't "personally appear" before the Sheriff with the gun.

I suspect that you would be perfectly legal in buying the gun here, and taking it out of the County within 72 hours. However, I also suspect that the sellers at the gun show will be filling out the Clark County registration forms just like my dealer did. And, I doubt that they will sell you the gun without doing so.

If you come here and buy a gun at the show, give us a follow up post to let us know what happened visa vie the registration issue.

[Cherishortcake]

The 72 hour law is only for Nevada residents.Since the law change in October non-residents have a longer period, that is either 30 or 90 days. It was extended for people passing through, like people that travel with gun shows. There's a new NRA-ILA flyer being passed around. I wish I had a copy to check, but it must be posted on Nevada.org site somewhere.

[t11spanner]

So, if I understand you correctly, even though I do not live in Clark County, I still have to register a handgun if I buy it there?

I live in Pershing.

Just trying to make sure I have it correct.

[VegasGeorge]

My understanding is that Clark County ordinances are only enforceable in Clark County. The ordinance gives you 72 hours to register. So, if you leave the County before the time is up, taking the gun with you, what possible legal consequences could there be?

That doesn't mean, of course, that a cautious seller might not require registration of the gun at the time it's sold in Clark County.

[t11spanner]

That is what I was thinking, and I do not mind registering it, cause I wont be there long enough....

TNX again!

Carl

[varminter22]

Due to legislation passed in the 74th session (2007), Clark County now imposes the 72 hour registration requirement upon Clark County residents.

If you (a NON Clark Co resident) are visiting for less than 60 days, you do NOT have to register your handguns.

[VegasGeorge]

Preface
This document is current through Ordinance 3609 passed March 4, 2008

12.04.110 Registration of pistols within seventy-two hours.
Any resident of the county receiving title to a pistol, whether by purchase, gift, or any other transfer, and whether from a dealer or from any other person, shall, within seventy-two hours of such receipt, personally appear at the county sheriff’s office, together with the pistol, for the purpose of registering the same with the sheriff. It shall be the duty of the sheriff to register the pistol, and he may, and is hereby authorized to cooperate in any manner he sees fit with other law enforcement agencies, and with licensed dealers, relative to registration of pistols, so that efficient registration shall be secured at minimum cost and duplication. (Ord. 3571 §*3, 2007: Ord. 242 §*11, 1965)

That is the current ordinance requiring residents to register within 72 hours. I could find no definition of "resident," and I could find no mention of a 60 day provision for out of towners. Where is that information coming from?

[varminter22]

Preface
This document is current through Ordinance 3609 passed March 4, 2008

12.04.110 Registration of pistols within seventy-two hours.
Any resident of the county receiving title to a pistol, whether by purchase, gift, or any other transfer, and whether from a dealer or from any other person, shall, within seventy-two hours of such receipt, personally appear at the county sheriff’s office, together with the pistol, for the purpose of registering the same with the sheriff. It shall be the duty of the sheriff to register the pistol, and he may, and is hereby authorized to cooperate in any manner he sees fit with other law enforcement agencies, and with licensed dealers, relative to registration of pistols, so that efficient registration shall be secured at minimum cost and duplication. (Ord. 3571 §*3, 2007: Ord. 242 §*11, 1965)

That is the current ordinance requiring residents to register within 72 hours. I could find no definition of "resident," and I could find no mention of a 60 day provision for out of towners. Where is that information coming from?

I don't know where you got the above info, but the "current as of date" is wrong - probably just current as far as that particular webmaster knows.

Perhaps this will help, George.

Fm: Thomas Roberts <T4589R>
Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:20 PM
Subj: 74th Legislative Session Questions

Dear Mr. :

Sheriff Gillespie received your letter regarding Senate Bill #92 from
the 74th Nevada Legislative Session and he has asked me to respond to
you in his behalf.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to express your concerns
regarding LVMPD and our community. It is hearing from grateful and
supportive citizens like you that makes me proud to serve you and strive
to do my job better.

As you pointed out in your letter, Senate Bill #92 requires the
amendment of ordinances or regulations adopted by local governments
before June 13, 1989, that require registration of a firearm capable of
being concealed to impose: (1) a period of at lest 60 days of residency
in the jurisdiction before registration of such a firearm is required;
and (2) a period of at least 72 hours for the registration of a pistol
by a resident of the jurisdiction upon transfer of title to the pistol
to the resident by purchase, gift or any other transfer. In addition,
the bill set requirements that the Board of County Commissioners,
governing body of a city and town board in a county whose population is
400,000 or more, shall amend any ordinance or regulation adopted by that
body before June 13, 1989 by January 1, 2008 or the applicable provision
shall be deemed to conform with operation of law (which is the above
mandated residency and time requirements).

To answer the questions in your letter:

Have the city/county ordinances been repealed/amended? Or is there a
move afoot to do so as required by Nevada Law? On December 18, 2007 the
Clark County Board of Commissioners adopted an ordinance that amended
county code implemented the required changes. The City of Las Vegas is
in the process of amending their city code to conform and reflect the
changes that are now in affect through operation of law.

Have the Sheriff and city police departments been informed that most of
the ordinances are now, or on January 1, 2008 will be, null, void and
unenforceable? As for LVMPD, my office produced a legislative guide
that informed our officers of all of the changes that impact their
duties were made during the 74th session. Senate Bill #92 and its
mandated changes were included in that guide.

Testimony during the passing of Senate Bill #92 reflected that
legislative intent was not to be a preemption bill and was to change the
law so residents of Clark County have 72 hours after receiving title to
register guns and if citizens who are not a resident, for purposes of
gun registration, become a resident of Clark County 60 days after they
arrive.

In addition, LVMPD's legal counsel, Clark County District
Attorney's office and Las Vegas City Attorney's office have all
reviewed Senate Bill #92 and have provided guidance that the enforcement
of these ordinances and codes should continue utilizing the new adopted
language in the Un-incorporated Clark County and the operation of law
(Senate Bill #92) in the City of Las Vegas until the city code can be
amended.

I hope that this information answers your questions and addresses your
concerns.

Tom

Lieutenant Tom Roberts
Director, Office of Intergovernmental Services
Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department
Office: (702) 828-5538

I also have a copy (in pdf) of Clark Co Bill no 11-20-07-1 which was passed on Dec 4, 2007; summary: An ord to amend sections 12.04.010, 080, 110, and 200 of the Clark Co Code relating to the regis of firearms. I could email it to you, if you like.

I also have mail and email correspondence leading up to this point.

While Clark Co has amended ordinances as indicated, they refuse to comply with the remainder - they still have other ordinances (in my opinion) that are in violation of the state preemption law.

Also, you should look here for further confirmation: www.lvmpd.com/permits/firearms_registration.htmlA period of at least 60 days of residency in the county before registration of such a firearm is required.

A period of at least 72 hours for the registration of a pistol by a resident of the county upon transfer of title to the pistol to the resident by purchase, gift or any other transfer.

[VegasGeorge]

"I don't know where you got the above info, but the "current as of date" is wrong - probably just current as far as that particular webmaster knows."

Actually, I don't rely on lay websites, or unknown webmasters for my legal information. Nor do I rely on letters from government officials to verify my information. When possible, I try to go directly to the official source, and when that's not possible, to bona fide professional legal information services.

My above information is from LexusNexus, and that is as authoritative a source as you are likely to find.

http://www.ordlink.com/codes/clarknv/index.htm

[varminter22]

"I don't know where you got the above info, but the "current as of date" is wrong - probably just current as far as that particular webmaster knows."

Actually, I don't rely on lay websites, or unknown webmasters for my legal information. Nor do I rely on letters from government officials to verify my information. When possible, I try to go directly to the official source, and when that's not possible, to bona fide professional legal information services.

My above information is from LexusNexus, and that is as authoritative a source as you are likely to find.

http://www.ordlink.com/codes/clarknv/index.htm

Actually, LexusNexus is NOT up to date.

You can verify with your local officials, such as the DA, Sheriff, etc.

[VegasGeorge]

I'm only going to say this one time. I'm not going to continue this debate beyond these words:

When you go to court on a charge relating to gun registration, the judge is going to ask his or her law clerk to research the issue. That clerk is going to consult the Ordinances as published by Westlaw or LexusNexus, depending on which service is available. That is the information that will be given to the judge. No one, neither the judge, the law clerk, nor the attorneys involved in the case, are going to waste time calling around to Sheriffs, or DAs for their word of mouth opinions. That's the way it is.

[varminter22]

I'm only going to say this one time. I'm not going to continue this debate beyond these words:

When you go to court on a charge relating to gun registration, the judge is going to ask his or her law clerk to research the issue. That clerk is going to consult the Ordinances as published by Westlaw or LexusNexus, depending on which service is available. That is the information that will be given to the judge. No one, neither the judge, the law clerk, nor the attorneys involved in the case, are going to waste time calling around to Sheriffs, or DAs for their word of mouth opinions. That's the way it is.

Are you nuts?

Don't take my word for it. Look it up in the Clark County Code - at the court house, NOT online!

Look at the links I provided and then look at the REAL documents on file, as passed by the commissioners.

"Word of mouth!" Good grief. Ha!

[Bill of Rights]

George,

A point of curiosity: When Lexus/Nexus or Westlaw is not properly updated; that is, when the latest update is not on the site (because it's updated by people, this is a conceivable "oops", however rare), and a person is convicted of a crime that the latest written law would have made "not a crime", what is the recourse? Obviously, the defense should bring this to the court's attention, but if LN/WL is the only authoritative source, would they not research further?

By example, I'll point hypothetically to a bill we had proposed last legislative session. Had it passed (it failed in our state senate by one vote), it would have made it legal for LTC holders to carry in any state owned or leased building and on those properties. Presuming a) it passed, b) it failed to be updated in L/N, and c) I'd gone and been arrested for carrying at a school, who would have been wrong, the judge convicting me or me for having "broken" the old law, prior to the change?

Blessings,
B

[varminter22]

George,

A point of curiosity: When Lexus/Nexus or Westlaw is not properly updated; that is, when the latest update is not on the site (because it's updated by people, this is a conceivable "oops", however rare), and a person is convicted of a crime that the latest written law would have made "not a crime", what is the recourse? Obviously, the defense should bring this to the court's attention, but if LN/WL is the only authoritative source, would they not research further?

By example, I'll point hypothetically to a bill we had proposed last legislative session. Had it passed (it failed in our state senate by one vote), it would have made it legal for LTC holders to carry in any state owned or leased building and on those properties. Presuming a) it passed, b) it failed to be updated in L/N, and c) I'd gone and been arrested for carrying at a school, who would have been wrong, the judge convicting me or me for having "broken" the old law, prior to the change?

Blessings,
B

I think this is a "no brainer." A wrongful conviction would be fixed.

I would like to think your attorney looks further than online when the chips are down.

Although it is conceivably possible that a judge ONLY looks online for law, I REALLY doubt it.

I'm not an attorney. Nor am I a judge. Although I believe we have the greatest system to ever grace the earth, our system does have its flaws.

If attorneys/judges look no further than "google" when arguing/deciding cases, God help us.

Actually, I don't know where George was looking (he didn't include a link), but see the following Clark County website: www.accessclarkcounty.com/depts/clerk/Pages/amendments.aspx which seems quite clear and current to me. "The code books for Clark County have been updated through August 8, 2007. To view these books, click "here" which will take you to: http://ordlink.com/codes/clarknv/index.htm"

12.04.110 Registration of pistols within seventy-two hours.

Any resident of the county receiving title to a pistol, whether by purchase, gift, or any other transfer, and whether from a dealer or from any other person, shall, within seventy-two hours of such receipt, personally appear at the county sheriff’s office, together with the pistol, for the purpose of registering the same with the sheriff. It shall be the duty of the sheriff to register the pistol, and he may, and is hereby authorized to cooperate in any manner he sees fit with other law enforcement agencies, and with licensed dealers, relative to registration of pistols, so that efficient registration shall be secured at minimum cost and duplication. (Ord. 3571 § 3, 2007: Ord. 242 § 11, 1965)

AND:

12.04.200 Registration of firearms capable of being concealed.

It is unlawful for any person with at least sixty days of residency in the county to own or have in his possession, within the unincorporated area of Clark County, a pistol or other firearm capable of being concealed, unless the same has first been registered with the sheriff or with a police department of any of the incorporated cities of Clark County. (Ord. 3571 § 4, 2007: Ord. 242 § 20, 1965)

If the above quotes don't satisfy George, and if George cannot see his way clear to do the research in the county code, well, I don't know what else to do.

Heck, the website from which the above quotes were taken even specifies George's beloved quote:
Preface

This document is current through Ordinance 3609 passed March 4, 2008, Regulation G-146-02, passed September 30, 2002, and Regulation L-239-07, passed October 16, 2007. For more recent provisions, please contact the County.

Copyright 2003 Matthew Bender & Company, Inc., a member of the LexisNexis Group.

All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or distributed in any form or by any means, or stored in a database or retrieval system, without the prior written permission of the publisher.

Published by:

LexisNexis
13427 NE 16th Street
Suite 150
Bellevue WA 98005
1-866-501-5155

The above quoted ordinances were proposed as bill no. 11-20-07-1, ord no. 3571 on Nov 20, 2007 - AND was passed on Dec 4, 2007 to be effective on Dec 18, 2007. I have the document in pdf, but don't know how to post it here in pdf format. I tried to convert it to text, but no luck. If anyone wants a copy of it, I can send via email.

Happy legalities!

[varminter22]

George,

I just re read this entire thread.

Apparently, you simply missed this:

12.04.200 Registration of firearms capable of being concealed.

It is unlawful for any person with at least sixty days of residency in the county to own or have in his possession, within the unincorporated area of Clark County, a pistol or other firearm capable of being concealed, unless the same has first been registered with the sheriff or with a police department of any of the incorporated cities of Clark County. (Ord. 3571 § 4, 2007: Ord. 242 § 20, 1965)

There is the provision you couldn't find.

Had I noticed that sooner, we may have avoided the lengthy thread! My apologies.

Note: 12.04.200 applies to Clark Co NON residents (60 days) (visitors to Clark Co)

AND 12.04.110 applies to Clark Co residents (72 hours)

[Bill of Rights]

LexisNexis or Westlaw is about as far removed from "just google" as it can be. My understanding of it is that it's the equivalent of the law books we traditionally see in any lawyer's office, but updated with the actual law changes as no bound paper book can be. (Of course a new edition can be printed, I just mean that once printed, the ink won't change when the law does, a new book must be bought.) My point is that people are fallible and it is people who update LN and WL, and if the judge and prosecution rely solely on those sources, as George said, an error like a failure to update might be hard to catch. I don't have access to those sources, so I go to the legislature's website when I need to research law. It's usually authoritative enough for the purposes I need. I'd like to think that the justice system would at least use that same source, but if not, I'd like to know about it before I'm arrested for what is actually a completely legal act. (I think I'd look at it as a financial opportunity.)

Blessings,
B

[varminter22]

In the end, the point is thus: Lexis/Nexis appears to be up to date. The 72 requirement is there for residents of Clark County. There is no 72 hour requirement for ANY other person(s) that are NOT residents of Clark County; a visitor need not register handguns unless staying for 60 days.

This portion of this debate started when George indicated he couldn't find the "60 day" requirement. I was simply trying to point out that in accordance with current Clark County code, visitors are NOT required to register handguns unless staying for 60 days. Perhaps now that issue is settled.