The 22 LR for CCW

[DAN]

This is just to continue the last thread on the 22lr and what value it has in protection. That was a great thread.

I have done quite a bit of work with the 22LR and I find it a facinating round. When you look deep int the history it is full of amazing stories and urban legand like Pioneer related to.

I challenge anyone to show a source for the 22 used for assasinations. Don't reference the sound suppressed 22 Rugers or Hi Standards the special Ops community developed. There was a reason they were called HUSH PUPPIES.

Not to discount the value of the 22 for sound suppressed work. A sub sonic 22 with the right suppressor can be very quiet. This is good for eliminating rodents and larger pest.

A 22LR handgun can be and is an accurate and easy to control. History does show that the 22LR was not very reliable in autos. This is do to the rim on the cartridge. Very few rimmed cartridges have been used in semi auto handguns. Many reliabe semi auto 22lr are available at this time. Ruger started the revolution with the Ruger Standard Auto, 60 years ago.

The 22 revolver is a different story. Dependible, accurate, inexspensive and many times built on the same frame as the larger calibers.
When I train someone from scratch I start with air soft replicas, move to 22LR rev or autos and the let them decide where to go from there. I have 22 revolvers that are exactly the same size and nearly the same weight as a 38 or 357. I have 22 conversions for my 45 and 9mm autos.

I find training with the 22 at all levels a wonderful way to train in fundementals and to get the basics of shooting on the move or multiple adversaries up to a level where it is second nature when using other calibers.

As far as using the 22 LR for self defense, certainly, if you do not have a choice or if there is some type of disability involved.

Hanguns in general are not the first choice for defense but if you have seen a real pistol person work a 22 under stress you can understand the advantage of little recoil and accuracy have on shot placement and time.

Just put it all into perspective, a 22 or any handgun caliber will kill someone, the question is how long will it take. It doesn't do you much good if you shoot someone until you run dry and then they kill you and your family before the die.
This is where understanding your limitations and the limitations of your equipment is a necessity when you depend on them for your life.

Dan

[tuna]

I challenge anyone to show a source for the 22 used for assasinations.
Dan

Didn't you see the movie "Casino"? :)



As far as using the 22 LR for self defense, certainly, if you do not have a choice or if there is some type of disability involved.

Hanguns in general are not the first choice for defense but if you have seen a real pistol person work a 22 under stress you can understand the advantage of little recoil and accuracy have on shot placement and time.

Just put it all into perspective, a 22 or any handgun caliber will kill someone, the question is how long will it take. It doesn't do you much good if you shoot someone until you run dry and then they kill you and your family before the die.
This is where understanding your limitations and the limitations of your equipment is a necessity when you depend on them for your life.

Dan



I look at a .22 as an okay CCW gun, as a small gun that you can carry in your Speedo (I've got a .22 derringer that I often carry) and HAVE A FIREARM. It isn't good for sniper suppression or anti-aircraft use. And honestly, I have no reason to carry a gun that would fill those roles. On the street, I'm Joe Public, and my gun is to defend my family and myself. In the classic hypothetical "mall shooting", I'm looking for a way out, instead of rushing to the sound of gunfire to save the day. I live in a state full of sheep, tough for them, they voted for the stupid laws I obey, they can deal with the consequences. The sheep aren't going to pay my funeral bill, legal fees or even the ammunition I use to save them, so I'm booting out the door. For me, as a "GET OFF ME" gun, a .22 is fine. If the bad guy is too far for me to use my .22, then he is too far to be a realistic threat to me.

A cop who has a duty to intervene is another story, but that story isn't mine. Thank you for risking your life to save others, if you need me I'll be in the parking lot behind that truck's engine block. For him/her, a .22 probably isn't a good choice, except as a last ditch survival tool.

I think people get too carried away with what's "tacticool" and what the local SWAT uses, and thinks they need to use the same equipment. The two are worlds apart, and us CC'ing citizens need to recognize that. For our average "need", I think a .22 will suffice.


***Disclaimer***I'm not a lawyer, gunsmith or instructor, and only played doctor as a child. The above is my opinion, given freely and probably worth what you paid for it.

[pioneer461]

Taking a .22 to a gunfight is like taking a garden hose to a forest fire. It just is not enough. Better than nothing? Sure, but there are better options.

None of us has any idea what the situation will be where we may have to defend ourselves and our family. It's very apparent you have given it some thought and have developed a plan of escape if you find yourself in a mall shooting. It's useful to have a plan, but plans tend to fall apart when the opponent doesn't act as you had anticipated. There may be a situation where you are not able to run. You may find yourself cornered, facing an approaching threat determined to kill you. Maybe he thinks you cut him off in traffic. Maybe he thinks you have somehow harmed him, or insulted him. Maybe he just wants to kill someone and you are the first, closest target of opportunity.

If you limit yourself to a two shot .22 derringer and your wife, girlfriend, or child gets shot because of it, you have failed to do your duty to protect your family.

Ultimately it is your choice of course, but .22 LR rounds are not reliable fight stoppers. Sure, many people die from .22 cal wounds, but in the vast majority of those cases it takes a long while for that death to occur. The idea of defensive pistol use is to stop the threat, not necessarily kill anyone and we can not rely on a .22 to do that.

[VegasGeorge]

Here is an interesting, if depressing, table that shows the .22 in relation to other calibers involved in certain killings:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2007/data/table_39.html

[tuna]

Taking a .22 to a gunfight is like taking a garden hose to a forest fire. It just is not enough. Better than nothing? Sure, but there are better options.

I agree. Please don't misunderstand me to think that a .22 can be considered a manstopper by any means. The garder hose in the forest fire will allow you a SMALL area of safety, but it isn't enough at all. Just like a .22 will give you a SMALL area of safety as an Eyes Ears Nose and Throat gun. Past contact range, you're pretty much SOL, but even an empty derringer makes a better bludgeon than my fingernails do.

I know many people that have the ".45 or nothing" mindset, and will often choose "nothing" - that isn't me. I'll take what I can. If I've got a choice, I'd rather a shotgun. But I won't go "naked" just because I can't carry my .44.

[VegasGeorge]

Years of small game hunting with my trusty old .22 pump rifle allows me to feel like something of an expert on those guns. And, I have a .22 Ruger 22/45 pistol which goes with me on all my outback expeditions. I only shoot the .22 long rifle hollow point. That soft lead slug opens up nicely, and tears one heck of an exit hole in a rabbit. I sure wouldn't want one of those doing its business in my body!

Of course, for self defense a lot of consideration arise. One that I haven't seen mentioned is simple ergonomics. For a big man, like me, the hand wants a fair sized pistol to hold on to. I hate those little guns where my fingers seem too long, and my 4th and 5th fingers are left flopping in the breeze. So, if you're going to have a larger frame for ergonomic reasons, why not have a larger caliber? My Ruger .22 seems kind of funny to me. It's a full sized gun shooting itty bitty bullets. Anyway, that's my take on it.