Watchful Citizen Nabs Felon

[Lady Di]

Here's an article about a situation that happened in my little hometown of Rossville, Indiana last night. I'm interested in hearing reactions to the details and the comments made by the police officers.

http://www.ftimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=88&SubSectionID=244&ArticleID=41682

[Bill of Rights]

OK, let's break this down. First, Ms. Meadows, the writer, shows a bit of possible bias in "...what he believed was his call of duty..."

Mr. Gephart, according to the "picture" painted by the words of this article, hears a wreck, calls 911, listens to his police scanner, and, because he always wanted to be a LEO, decides to go in pursuit of someone who left the scene of an accident, claiming as his bona fides the fact that he was in the military for 10 years.

I applaud his service and am grateful for it, but I don't believe that that service makes it any more or less his responsibility than mine to pursue like this.

He neither needed nor used his gun, and this is a good thing, which is also what makes the fact totally irrelevant to his actions, and paints him out to be the vigilante that the Brady Bunch claim responsible gun owners to be.

He didn't have any handcuffs, which is good, but raises the exact issue that VegasGeorge raised a couple of weeks ago: OK, you got him, now what do you do with him? Next question: if Gephart patted down Moyer, did he find the ankle bracelet? If not, how thorough a pat-down did he do? If so, why did he put him in his own vehicle, and not just hold him there at the scene?

I don't mean to cast aspersions on this citizen's actions, and I know it's very easy to Monday morning quarterback his addressing of the situation. The bottom line is that I wasn't there and I don't know that I'd not have done the same thing, but I tend to doubt it.

The biggest question that comes to mind for me is this:
"It was always my desire to be a police officer," Gephart said. "But they don't make enough money for putting their life on the line.

OK, so the police don't make enough money to put their lives on the line (with equipment, backup, radios, etc.) , but you did it this time with none of that for free?!?! :shock:

With what information is given here, I don't think he made a good choice. No one's life was endangered by his hiding under a shrub. No one was at risk of injury, nor was any property at risk, either, least of all his. Sometimes, it's better to be a good witness than to try to be a hero in matters that don't involve you.

Blessings,
M

A Rossville man answered what he believed was his call of duty Monday night, when he chased down and detained a convicted felon.

Keith Gephart and his girlfriend, Sally Freeman, were at their North East Street home in Rossville Monday night, when around 9:30, they heard what they said sounded like a shotgun blast.

Gephart looked outside, then dialed 911. From his police scanner, he heard that a man had wrecked his truck nearby and was fleeing the scene on foot.

Hearing that there was no officers in the area, Gephart, a 10-year military veteran, took off in pursuit.

The accident report indicates that Shannon D. Boyer, 25, who was on house arrest, was driving his 2000 Dodge pickup west on Delphi Street when he reached for a CD and veered off the road near North East Street.

The distraction caused his vehicle to crash into a tree on property belonging to Sue Pensinger.

When Pensinger tried to make contact with Moyer, the report states, he fled.

Gephart heard over the scanner what was happening and advised the dispatcher that he was a military veteran and would check things out.

"I caught a glimpse of him going in between houses," Gephart said of Moyer.

Freeman, who remained indoors, told The Times Tuesday, "We were watching through the back door to see if he was running through our yard or anything."

Gephart drove his truck about four blocks searching for the fugitive. About 15 minutes later, he located Moyer hiding among some shrubbery.

"I caught a glimpse of him crossing the road and high-tailing it," Gephart said. "He saw that I was looking. He was setting in the bushes. ... I said, 'Dude, I'm not a cop.'"

Using his military experience, Gephart told Moyer to get on the ground and then patted him down.

"I didn't have any handcuffs," he said.

However, a registered gun owner, Gephart was carrying a firearm.

Finding no weapons, Gephart said, he told Moyer to climb into his truck and return with him to the accident scene.

Moyer reportedly complied, saying "OK, OK," Gephart reported.

By the time the two men arrived back at the wreck, police had arrived.

They found that Moyer was wearing an ankle bracelet, indicating he was on house arrest, said Major Mike Hensley with the Clinton County Sheriff's Office. Police also found a loaded weapons in Moyer's vehicle.

Hensley said he didn't know why Moyer was on house arrest. It was also unclear as to why he fled the scene of the accident.

"I'm assuming since he was on home detention he got scared," Hensley said.

Moyer was charged at 11:37 p.m. with being a violent felon possessing a firearm, a class B felony. He was also charged with false reporting or informing, escape and leaving the scene of a property damage accident, according to court records.

He is being held in the Clinton County Jail without bond for all but the firearm possession charge. He is being held on a $5,000 bond for that charge.

Police seem to agree that while Gephart was a huge help in catching the criminal, he risked more than they would advise a common citizen.

"We're very grateful to (Gephart) for doing what he did do.

"We want citizens involved and giving us information," Hensley said. "I just don't know that we really want people involved like that. It could be fatal."

Marshal Travis Harris agreed. Since Rossville does not have a 24-hour police department, relying on citizens to be the eyes and ears of the town is crucial.

But it should not require putting yourself in harm's way, he said.

"I sure didn't think he was going to do that," Freeman said. "I just thought he was going to go down and check the wreck out.

"It was a full surprise when he came home."

Asked if he was ever afraid during the chase, Gephart said, "No. Why would I be afraid?"

But after the adrenaline rush, he said, he wondered what would have happened had Moyer been armed.

"It was always my desire to be a police officer," Gephart said. "But they don't make enough money for putting their life on the line.

"I don't like people that break the law."

[VegasGeorge]

A citizen can get into a whole lot of trouble, or even killed, playing at super hero crime stopper. That IS NOT what CCW is all about. Intervening to stop a life threatening crime that's happening right in front of you, maybe. Chasing down a fleeing suspect based on a radio, police scanner, or telephone report of a crime that has been committed elsewhere, never.

[Lady Di]

I agree with both assessments. I thought the citizen acted irresponsibly, and I'm just thankful no one was hurt.

[Stubob]

CCW does NOT mean you are law enforcement. In fact, if you look at who is getting the CCW permits, it is law abiding citizens that want to protect themselves.

Well said gang. Even the Oklahoma "Make My Day Law" only talks about the use of deadly force only when your or some one's life near you is in danger.

This was tested shortly after passage. A man was shopping in a grocery store and a robbery took place right in front of him. The robber was waving a gun at the check out girl and around the store. The CCW holder felt that he was in fear of his life and reacted by shooting the robber. He did not run the bad guy down and then shoot him.

One key point: Once a situation is defused, deadly force is not allowed. The gun must not be fired after the situation has gone from one of "Your life is in immanent danger" to one of alert status.

Any thoughts on this?

[Bill of Rights]

I think I recall reading that IN law allows pursuit of a fleeing criminal who either has your property or has done you (or your family?) harm. I have to check on this, however, so please don't quote me yet.

That said, it's like kissing a pi$$ed-off rattlesnake- just because the law permits it does not make it a good idea.

Blessings,
M

[junglebob]

The article says that Gephart was a registered gun owner. I don't think they register gun owners in Indiana, the Peoples Republic of Illinois is the only state that does that I believe. I expect they meant he had a handgun permit.

Its good for him that he didn't have to use his handgun. Seeing that his life was not in danger I imagine he could have been sued big time by the guy he apprehended if he shot and injured him or by his family if he was killed. I think he needs to read up on what is justifiable use of force in his state, or talk to an attorney.

[junglebob]

I got to thinking I wonder if that guy is any relation to our beloved gun control lover Senator Dick Gephart?

This kind of action by a CCW holder surely is not going to help us in "right denied" Illinois or Wisconsin get carry legislation. Anti-self defense people will jump on that as an example of how people will "play cop".

[Bill of Rights]

The article says that Gephart was a registered gun owner. I don't think they register gun owners in Indiana, the Peoples Republic of Illinois is the only state that does that I believe. I expect they meant he had a handgun permit.

Its good for him that he didn't have to use his handgun. Seeing that his life was not in danger I imagine he could have been sued big time by the guy he apprehended if he shot and injured him or by his family if he was killed. I think he needs to read up on what is justifiable use of force in his state, or talk to an attorney.

Precisely my point, though you brought another layer to it, that of the difference in terminology between "registered gun owner" and LTC holder.
The fact that he pursued the criminal is the story, but the media, in most cases, just cannot let irrelevant data slip by when it might somehow bode ill for gun owners. Just a guess, but I'd guess that the gentleman carries every day, all day, and when he went after this guy, he just didn't bother to leave his gun home. It was on him and he likely gave it little or any thought, knowing it was there in the same way that he knew his wallet was in his pocket.

FYI, several states register not only the owners but also each weapon. MA (I think it's MA) does a "safety inspection" on every weapon you buy, which amounts to the state police noting down the caliber, barrel length, serial number, and other particulars of the gun and the address and various other identifying (and locating) data on the owner as well. NV requires that you not carry any semi-auto that's not listed on your permit, and there are many other examples. LTCs clearly are de-facto gun owner registration in those places and likely are everywhere else as well. The way to combat this would be for every citizen in the country who is eligible to do so to go and get his or her LTC.

If he'd have done the same thing unarmed, I don't think it's intelligent, but I can't fault his action insofar as RKBA.

Blessings,
M

[Raccoon]

OK, Raccoon's 2 cents worth.

"Hearing that there was no officers in the area"

I often go to call if I hear about it and dont radio in until I am close. So, after he left, he did not know if a PD officer was on site.

" when he reached for a CD and veered off the road "

Umm, and so he just made a mistake so far in the story by not paying attention. It does so happen that he was under house arrest, but the ccw guy did not know that at the time. He stated he heard a shotgun blast?

"Using his military experience, Gephart told Moyer to get on the ground and then patted him down."

Do we have the right to pat someone down when we see them running? Terry vs. Ohio covers PD Officers but what about the rest of us?

Did he place the guy under arrest? On what charges? Was the guy then free to go at any point?

He probably was a huge help, but what kind of problems does this present in a court when it comes time to charge the bad guy with crimes? What if when the good guy drove up with the bad guy in the truck and the officer sees a weapon and thinks they are together or accomplices?

I just think that this guy over stepped his bounds in what he did. I think he was too eager to make an arrest. I think a good defense attorney would get the bad guy off on a technicality and get the evidenced quashed.

But that's me.

Here is what I would do. Go see if there was someone who needed help. Follow the suspected criminal, and make sure he did not hurt anyone. Cell phone in where the bad guy is if you want to get involved. But how was the CCW guy protecting himself?

I just think it could have been handled a better way.

But, there might be other facts I do not know about.

What do you'all think?

[Lady Di]

I guess you could classify this as a "citizen's arrest," and I don't know if that's even legal. The story reminded me of the Andy Griffith episode where Gomer Pyle placed Barney Fife under citizen's arrest for making an illegal u-turn.

I agree, Raccoon. The citizen was overzealous, and he should have waited for the police officers to arrive. As it turned out, the BG had a loaded gun in his vehicle. The citizen was fortunate that he didn't get shot by the BG.

This was the most excitement my little hometown has had in years. Rossville is a town of 1500, and we have a town marshall who works part-time.