Quick shout out to Missourians

[kcty]

I saw the chance and had to get the first post in the Missouri forum. :D

Woot woot to Missourians for electing people to our government that will protect our second amendment rights to keep and bear arms.

Missouri is a good state to live in if you want to carry a concealed weapon. With the recent enactment of the Castle Doctrine and the ability to purchase (or transfer) a firearm without a sheriff’s permit only strengthen this point. Along with the fact that Missouri honers many other states conceal carry permit, just shows that we are electing the proper people to our government.

I am very proud to live in this state and I will do everything I can to keep the proper people in authoritative positions.

Please be aware of this next election and be knowledgeable of the people you vote for. Some of the people in this state will do everything they can to turn back the laws we have protecting gun owners and protect criminals instead. Do your part to keep this a gun friendly state.

[Bill of Rights]

Welcome to Carryconcealed.net, KCTY. We're starting to get more and more people here, and this is a very good thing. I'm glad to see that MO is recognizing your rights so well-I know that my state of Indiana is one that MO recognizes, and we recognize everyone else's. To "flesh this out" a little, would you answer a few questions? :)
What are your laws regarding the places where you cannot carry, even with a permit?
What does your permit cost and how long does it go for?
Do you have a training requirement to get it?
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Looking forward to your posts, and again, welcome!

Cogito, ergo porto.

Blessings,
M

[kcty]

I will do my best to answer your questions (sans the last one :lol: ), but I want to set forth a disclaimer first. I live and work in Missouri, but I do not have a Missouri concealed carry license. I have a Florida concealed carry license and I will tell you why. The Florida license lasts longer (5 years verse 3). MO tries to place an endorsement on your license when you have a CC permit and when the police run your plates, they know you have a CC permit before approaching your car. Not that I'm afraid of the police, but an over zealous officer could go overboard if they think I may have a firearm in my possession. I want to say that I do my best to NEVER break the law and I will notify the officer of my CC permit after they approach the car, but I want them to see me and see that I am not a threat before they pre-judge me.

All this being said, I am still bound by MO CC law and I do know the law as far as a non-resident permit goes.

1. Where we cannot carry
- Any police sheriff or HP office without consent
- Within 25 feet of a polling place on Election Day
- Any Detention institution or jail.
- Any courthouse for facilities
- Bars without consent
- Secure portions of airports
- Schools
- Child Care facilities without consent
- Riverboat gambling facilities
- Amusement parks
- Any church or place of worship without consent
- Any sports arena or stadium with seating more that 5,000.
- Hospitals
- Private or public property where posted.

In all of the above listed, you can carry your firearm in your car, just can't remove it from the car with the exception of the last one. If a no CC sign is posted, you can still carry at that location. If they find out you are carrying, you may have to leave. If you do not and they call the police, you will get fined. This is why I deep conceal carry. It is not unlawful for me to carry in a posted no CC location, so if they don't know, it won't hurt them or me.

2. Permit cost and duration.

Like I mentioned, I don't carry a MO CC permit, but I think I can answer the question.

- I believe the cost of the permit application is $100 at your local sheriff's office.
- The duration of the permit is 3 years and the cost to renew is $50.

3. Training requirements
- You must have a firearms safety course that is at least 8 hours long before requesting a CC permit.

Hope this answers your questions and questions for other people as well. Let me know if you have any other Missouri based questions. I'll be glad to answer what I can.

[Bill of Rights]

Thanks for the reply. I think it's interesting (and sad) to read the various places that it is unlawful to carry. I can see where many if not most of those came from (hoplophobia, in most cases), but that doesn't mean I agree with them. A good example would be forbidding carry within 25 feet of a polling place on Election Day (because we all know a firearm cannot shoot accurately at 8 2/3 yard distances, donchaknow). The one forbidden place on the list I can honestly see a good reason for forbidding carry would be any detention facility, but in such a place, I'd be staying away from the criminals (and/or criminally insane) anyway, not to mention the inmates. :wink: :lol:

I also found interesting your rationale about carrying a FL CCW permit. I cannot speak to how well that might work, but I do know that our local police here always seem to know when someone has a permit, due to the system they use for the management of records. I'm not sure if the various states that issue non-res permits also contact the home state or not. Still, however, it's not like they do a "felony stop" on someone for a CCW permit. One thing you might consider is contacting your local PD/SO/HP and ask them (not through official channels, but find a cop somewhere and if it seems feasible to do so, ask him or her how they look on CCW, as well as how the majority of their department does. If he/she wonders why, say that you're considering whether or not to get a MO CCW permit, and if it's a good idea to do so. I would say, though I probably don't need to, that if the officer gives you mistaken information, this is not the time to correct him or her, unless in the context of "Really? Huh. I read that (fill in correct info), but you're the expert. I'll take your word for it." This should at the very least give him/her reason to look up the facts without losing face.

Again, thanks for writing back. Take care, have a great day, and as always,

Blessings,
M

P.S.: To answer the last question I asked, one must know if the swallow in question is African or European. :wink: :lol:

[kcty]

Thanks for you thoughts. I just have one more comment on my decision to hold only a FL CC permit. I don't know if FL will notify state or local authorities of my permit. Nor do I know that if I disclose this information to an officer during a stop that he won't make a note on my record at that time. What I do know is that if I have a MO CC permit, and an officer runs my license through the Department of Revenue, that they will be notified of my authorization to carry a concealed weapon.

My thoughts are that the less people that know about it, the better. I'd rather get my permit out of state and hope that they don't have as much info on me as they would if I obtained the permit locally.

Again, to emphasize, that I am not necessarily trying to keep it from the police, but just want to keep it on the down low.

One other thing to note about the FL CC permit is that it is cheaper considering that I only have to pay a $50 renewal fee every 5 years rather than every 3. Every little bit helps go to my ammo fund. :P

Anyway, thanks again, St. Michael, for you thoughts and comments and I look forward to chatting with you all in the future.

[junglebob]

Kcty, Are you sure as a Missouri resident that you aren't required to have a Missouri permit? I have a friend who was moving to Tennessee who I told about the Pennsylvania non-resident license which is recognized in Tennessee. He applied for it while in Illinois. I found out however that someone moving to Tennessee with an out of state carry permit is supposed to get a Tn permit within 6 months. Missouri may be different, just make sure you are legal. Florida is definately a good permit to have, reciprocity in 30 some states I believe. I'm glad my Pennsylvania license is good in Mo, its only $26 for 5 years, your states CCW license is required however. Since Illinois doesn't have one I got Pa.

[junglebob]

Kcty, Are you sure as a Missouri resident that you aren't required to have a Missouri permit? I have a friend who was moving to Tennessee who I told about the Pennsylvania non-resident license which is recognized in Tennessee. He applied for it while in Illinois. I found out however that someone moving to Tennessee with an out of state carry permit is supposed to get a Tn permit within 6 months. Missouri may be different, just make sure you are legal. Florida is definately a good permit to have, reciprocity in 30 some states I believe. I'm glad my Pennsylvania license is good in Mo, its only $26 for 5 years, your states CCW license is required however. Since Illinois doesn't have one I got Pa.

Since carry at a church is prohibited without permission, I'm curious who do you have to get permission from. Is it the pastor, church board, and elder or deacon? I'm an elder at my church could I give myself permission if it was in Missouri? I always disliked the idea of a blanket prohibition for churches. What if the church's pastor has had death threats against him, like mine has. A perpetrator is almost guaranteed that he and the congregation will be unarmed. Why make churches victim zones?

[Bill of Rights]

Why make churches victim zones?

Because it makes good sensationalist news stories. http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/puke.gif

Blessings,
M

[kcty]

Junglebob, yes I'm sure I can carry with a Florida permit in Missouri, but thanks for checking on me. :D It never hurts to make sure when it comes to the law.

Missouri allows us to carry with a non-resident permit so long as it is a reciprocating state.... which FL is.

I know I can't carry when I cross the boarder into Kansas because they do not allow someone with a non-resident permit to carry in the state. If I had a MO permit or I lived in FL with a FL permit, I would be fine in Kansas, but not cool if I live in MO and have a permit in FL.

It is very interesting that you mention a church shooting since we recently had one here in MO. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293070,00.html Honestly, I'm not sure who you need to get permission from. I know it has to be in writing, but as to who can sign it, I'm not sure. I would guess that if you got it signed by the Pastor or one of the board members, you'd probably be fine. I wouldn't do it myself, it just probably wouldn't look good. :wink:

I'll see if I can dig up the law on the non-resident stuff. I just spent a few minutes looking, but I didn't find what I was looking for. As for now, it's time for bed so I can get up and go to work in the morning. :cry:

[Lady Di]

How 'bout we get permission from Jesus? He was an advocate of arming oneself. Our church has a jail ministry so we get many from that particular element of society. I'm not taking any chances. I'm not asking anyone's permission to protect myself.

"Let he who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." --Jesus

[Bill of Rights]

I'm not asking anyone's permission to protect myself.

Fortunately, Lady Di, we live in a state that doesn't make it necessary for us to do so. If we did, carrying at a church would be similar in penalty to carrying past the metal detectors at the airport.

Some of the places I've seen in various state statutes are:

schools
hospitals
churches
any gov't building
bars
restaurants that derive over 50% of their income from the sale of alcohol
any private home, without the permission of the owner
and of course our own restrictions in IN for carrying on any property being used by a school for a school function, on a school bus, and at State Fair

I've seen one place-only one- that firearms might justifiably be prohibited, and that would be any place where criminals are incarcerated.
I've not seen it, but I might also be OK with "any place where the certifiably and/or criminally insane are committed for treatment, if said confinement or commitment is against their will", but it would depend on how the law was worded.

Blessings,
M

[JD_0788]

As it pertains to a church...

--snip--Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises.
--end snip--

Taken from here, see #14. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000107.HTM

[JD_0788]

Junglebob, yes I'm sure I can carry with a Florida permit in Missouri, but thanks for checking on me. :D It never hurts to make sure when it comes to the law.

Missouri allows us to carry with a non-resident permit so long as it is a reciprocating state.... which FL is.

I know I can't carry when I cross the boarder into Kansas because they do not allow someone with a non-resident permit to carry in the state. If I had a MO permit or I lived in FL with a FL permit, I would be fine in Kansas, but not cool if I live in MO and have a permit in FL.

It is very interesting that you mention a church shooting since we recently had one here in MO. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293070,00.html Honestly, I'm not sure who you need to get permission from. I know it has to be in writing, but as to who can sign it, I'm not sure. I would guess that if you got it signed by the Pastor or one of the board members, you'd probably be fine. I wouldn't do it myself, it just probably wouldn't look good. :wink:

I'll see if I can dig up the law on the non-resident stuff. I just spent a few minutes looking, but I didn't find what I was looking for. As for now, it's time for bed so I can get up and go to work in the morning. :cry:


It appears as though you are in violation of this section of the law?

--snip--
Any person issued a concealed carry endorsement pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall notify the department of revenue and the sheriffs of both the old and new jurisdictions of the endorsement holder's change of residence within thirty days after the changing of a permanent residence. The endorsement holder shall furnish proof to the department of revenue and the sheriff in the new jurisdiction that the endorsement holder has changed his or her residence. The change of residence shall be made by the department of revenue onto the individual's driving record and the new address shall be accessible by the Missouri uniform law enforcement system within three days of receipt of the information.
--end snip--

Taken from here...

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000104.HTM

[kcty]

I don't understand. This doesn't say anything about a non-resident permit. I have not changed my address. I see no violation.

I know a police officer is not really a good judge of what the law is when it comes to CCW, but I have had to give several officers my permit and license recently and not a one has questioned it.