Travel to a People's Republik state

[Bill of Rights]

OK, so here's a situation I'm not sure about. My wife is originally from CA, and as I've made obvious by my "location" stamp, we now live in IN. We've been to my home state of Texas many times over the years we've been married, and each time we've gone there together was before I was of a mind to exercise my 2A rights, but at this point, TX recognizes my IN LTC. The problem arises now that she wants to take me to CA (eventually, not any time very soon) to show me where she grew up and some of the sights there. CA, obviously, honors no LTCs but their own, don't issue non-res, and thus, for any time we were there, I would have to either be unarmed or carrying unlawfully (and no, I don't plan on doing the latter)
Part of the the whole "situational awareness" thing says that you don't go somewhere armed that you wouldn't go unarmed. Considering the areas where we'd be, and the heavily restrictive laws there, I don't know about how safe it would be (SF area-Oakland, Campbell, Monterey Bay, etc.) Even if the safety issue was not a consideration, I'm not terribly happy about spending money I earn to help the economy of a place that so totally disregards my rights.

I've tried explaining my reasons to her, but her take on it starts with "if you'd get off the gun kick and be more open-minded..." (I should mention that sometimes, she's VERY pro-2A, other times, she just thinks I've gone obsessive about the issue.... and admittedly, I don't "give" a lot when it comes to the idea of my rights being somehow less important than those of the liberals. (Their right to feel safe does not, in my mind, trump our right to BE safe and to ensure our own safety.)

So, in the spirit of open-mindedness, I'm going to pose the question here: Those who have knowledge of CA, it's laws, and the general situation there, if you lived in a state with laws more closely aligned with the Constitution and the intent of the Founders, would you travel to CA for a vacation? Please do elaborate in your reply, and PM me if you don't want to post publicly.

(Also, it's probably stupid to ask, but...is there any provision that allows lawful carry of an older weapon, such as an 1895 Russian 7.62 Nagant revolver, especially if one has a C&R FFL, without a CA CCW?)

Thanks all.

Cogito, ergo porto.

Blessings,
M

[HardChrome]

I'd make the trip. You can't reasonably live, especially with a wife, unless you stay in a cave.

I have to leave mine at home occasionally and since I work on a government facility I cannot carry to or from work every day. They used to let me check my weapons at the gate but they stopped that a long time ago.

[Lady Di]

I would have to either be unarmed or carrying unlawfully (and no, I don't plan on doing the latter)


First of all, it is not unlawful for you to carry anywhere in the U.S. The 2nd Amendment gives you that right. The lawbreakers are the elected officials who enacted unconstitutional laws all across our country. They are the individuals who are committing the unlawful acts with each unconstitutional law they decree. These laws should be challenged. What did our founders do when King George and the British Parliament enacted unjust laws? They had a Tea Party! They revolted! And yes, they were harshly criticized by fellow Americans, and yes, they were outnumbered by Tories, so timing was everything.

Now, I'm not saying you should carry in a state where you could be arrested for doing so. I'm just pointing out the contradiction in your terminology and setting the record straight as to who the real lawbreakers are. I know you know this, St. Michael, as we've discussed this privately. You've just provided me with an opportunity to get on my soapbox, and you know how I can't resist an opportunity to preach! :wink:

Sites like this excite me, because I believe education is the key to winning back the 2nd Amendment that has been stolen from us. I wouldn't advocate that you carry in a state that is hostile to the 2nd Amendment because you'll do the cause no good in jail at this point.

Signing the Declaration of Independence was an act of rebellion, and many did so knowing that they could lose their life, liberty, and property. They were all wanted men and they would have been hanged for treason had any of them been caught. My point in offering this history lesson is to express Ben Franklin's thoughts that he uttered after signing the Declaration of Independence, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." I would not like to see you hang separately, St. Michael, so you're right not to carry in California at this point in time. I just think we should stop using the terminology of the left. We should stop referring to ourselves as "lawbreakers" when we're not.

I also realize that revolution was the last resort for our country's founders. They pleaded with King George and Parliament. They sent mediator after mediator to England to reason with the king and his minions. They wrote letters to the editor, which later became known as The Federalist Papers. Imagine what they could have done with the Internet? This is what we must be doing and many of us are. In my humble opinion, Stubob and the others are patriots for developing and nurturing sites like this one. They are modern day heroes in my eyes. We should take every opportunity to educate the masses, just like St. Michael and VegasGeorge did with the college kid in Denver who didn't have a clue about the 2nd amendment and the RKBA.

Take your wife to California, St. Michael. Be aware of your surroundings everywhere you go. I've seen the rather large knife you carry. While it's not a gun, it certainly is a deterrent. You could also consider taking your very large guard dog. I wouldn't come near you with that beast by your side. :shock:

I'll leave you with the relevent words of John Adams for inspiration: "Objects of the most stupendous magnitude, and measures in which the lives and liberties of millions yet unborn are intimately interested, are now before us."

[VegasGeorge]

St. Michael, you didn't say how you intend to travel. If you are in your own, or a rented vehicle, you may be interested in California's extremely liberal (said tongue in cheek) law allowing you to carry your weapon with you in the car. See: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php

I lived almost 30 years in Monterey, so I can tell you about the areas you mentioned.

Monterey, Carmel, Pebble Beach, are all safe. Seaside is not. Salinas is OK during the day, but has some pretty bad areas at night.

San Francisco is safe during the day in most commercial areas. If you stick to the downtown area (blocks surrounding Union Square) during the day, you should have no trouble. I think all areas of San Francisco are dangerous at night.

Oakland is a bad place to be, just about any time of day. I wouldn't even drive through Oakland unless I had to go to a specific location there. I'm sure it's worse now than it was when I left California 7 years ago.

In general, you are much safer on West side of the bay. Oakland, and the entire East Bay area, should be avoided if possible.

I hope this helps.

[Bill of Rights]

Mea culpa, Lady Di, and you're correct: "All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." (Marbury v. Madison)
With that said, however, I don't want to be the test case!http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/judge.gif

By the way, the dog's not going, and the knife's not THAT big...The blade's only 3 1/2 inches long, but considering what I know about knife fighting, it's a lot bigger than I want to have shoved up my *ahem*. :shock:

(oh, and if you need it again, you can use this: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/soapbox.gif)

George,

If we go, we'll be going by air. We've driven cross-country before, and it's no fun. We *might* rent a car while there, or travel place to place with friends. I do have a car safe, and I *think* it meets CA safe storage requirements. I'll read your recommended site as soon as I finish writing this. My concern with SF is mostly the ordinance disallowing firearms and the fact that we all know that means that only the criminals are going to be armed. Still, your reassurance is helpful. I think we'd be driving through Oakland, as it's where she was born, but that would allow for car carry, as you indicated, and yes, I know that we travel with locked doors. She tells a story about a then-boyfriend that was in the car with her in her youth, who, driving through Oakland, loudly expressed a racial slur. http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/loco.gif If I recall, she pulled over and kicked him out of the car right there. Today, the same offense on a similar person's part would like as not get http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/shooter.gif from several angles, if I understand correctly.

Thank you both for your replies and your help. If anyone else has anything to offer (on any of this, but specifically on the question of the very old gun that I know I can carry here even without a permit, due to it's age), I would appreciate any input.

Blessings,
M

[Lady Di]

I like the soapbox, St. Michael, but don't you think the little person looks extremely angry? You know that I'm not a fire and brimstone preacher, right? Lady Di is happy! Oh, but try to take my guns away, and then maybe the image would fit.

Happy traveling. :P

[kcty]

My wife and I just visited the Bay Area earlier in the year and I have to say that I mostly enjoyed it. We were on the east side, but way south, and a little in off the bay. We visited SF and Santa Cruz and I felt okay with my safety most of the time. I agree with VegaGeorge on his safe, questionable and unsafe comments. The only thing he didn't mention was Santa Cruz (not sure if your going to that area or not). I think you kinda have to watch it, but pretty safe during the day so long as you stick to the populated area's like the beach and the boardwalk like we did. The bay area in general is cool, I like to visit there (except for the terrible laws), but I would never want to live in CA again.

The other thing to mention as far as travel modes go is public transportation. I don't know VegaGeorge's thoughts on this, but we did travel on the BART when going into SF. I felt pretty safe most of the time, but it got a little dicey when we left the city during rush hour and everyone was trying to get on the BART to go home. I grabbed my wifes hand real tight to make sure we didn't get separated. Once we got on, it was okay, but didn't like the feeling of not being able to really go anywhere. While in SF, we stayed in pretty populated area's like the Embarcadero, Fisherman's Wharf and parts of China town. All the tourist area's are pretty good because of all the people. Just watch out for the aggressive bums looking for money. They don't take no for an answer. When we went, we tried our best not to look like tourists by not displaying cameras (carried a small digital camera in my pocket when we weren't taking pictures), carrying bags or displaying a map. Didn't seem to work real well. I guess we were looking around too much to be a native because shortly after getting on the Embarcadero, we were asked if we wanted a bike carriage ride. Oh yeah, you blend. --My Cousin Vinny :D

I would say you should go. Enjoy yourself and see the sights. They are pretty cool if you don't think about the people running the show. Like Lady Di said, be aware of your surroundings and get out of their at the first sign of trouble.

Good luck!

[CA CCWInstructor]

First and foremost, I'm sure things have changed since you wife left our great state.

What area is she planning on taking you? City or county would be a great help.

Depending on that answer a CCW may be a moot point. You may need a tank instead.

[Bill of Rights]

Thanks kc and CA CCW- I'm still not crazy about spending money in a place that runs so counter to my understanding of rights and responsibilities, but it sounds like the general consensus is that I'm overreacting. CA CCW, all I know is that she was born and grew up in Oakland, I don't know where. She lived in Campbell before moving here, and our daughter (mine by adoption, hers by birth) was born in Sacremento. I know she's mentioned San Diego as well as Monterey Bay aquarium and Fisherman's Wharf as major sights she wants me to see, to say nothing of the Pacific itself (and yes, I know I'd see it from the Wharf, at the very least). I know as well that these are not sites that are very close to each other, not that anything is really close out there, timewise, but then again, I grew up in Texas, and "close", not even considering traffic, if any, was anything within about 1/2 an hour to an hour away.

My understanding is that Oakland is pretty much one of those areas you go only with a tank, artillery cover and close air support. And then maybe.

[kcty]

St.Michael, I can understand your feelings about not wanting to spend money in an area that is so contrary to your believes. I do, but the sights really are neat and it's not something you see everyday. It's also good to see where your wife was born and raised and I'm sure the nostalgia will be great for her.

CA CCSInstructor, I don't mean to make it sound like CA is not a great state. It really is. Landscape-wise, it has everything you can dream of from deserts to some of the most fertile land in the US to mountains to oceans. It is a beautiful state. Unfortunately the political scene has been hijacked by people bound and determined to take our rights away.

Just so everyone else knows, CA is a fairly conservative state if you are considering by land area. You get out of the major cities on the coast and you have lots of farms and people that grew up with guns. That liberal coast is a powerful thing, though.

Like I said before, I love to visit the state and their is never a shortage of things to see or do.

[Bill of Rights]

I have some online friends up in far northern CA, so yes, I know what you mean, kcty. One of them is a MO transplant, but the others are from Southern CA, and in spite of that, still conservative enough to recognize the value of a good shootin' iron. (They can't stand Der Governator either.)

Maybe we can get LA, SF, "Cago", and NYC to all secede, then the rest of the country could go on as the Founders intended? Maybe?

Cogito, ergo porto.

Blessings,
M

[CA CCWInstructor]

DO NOT GO TO Oakland. The rest are fine, you won't need a CCW in the rest.

[Lady Di]

California will never be the same without Ronald Reagan. :cry:

[DAN]

Come on out and enjoy yourself. Just don't hang around any of the cities at 2am with hundred dollar bills hanging out of your pocket.

There is a bunch to see and things to do.

DAN

[Lady Di]

I visited San Diego in 1992. It was beautiful and we took in a Padres game. We made the mistake of crossing the border into Tiajuana, Mexico, though, and that was a huge mistake. I didn't even want to breathe in the air until I was back in the U.S.A.

[Bill of Rights]

Come on out and enjoy yourself. Just don't hang around any of the cities at 2am with hundred dollar bills hanging out of your pocket.

There is a bunch to see and things to do.

DAN

While I'm often awake at 2AM, I'm not wealthy enough to often even SEE a $100 bill :lol: And I rarely hang out in my own city at that time anyway.

Thanks for the advice.

Blessings,
M

[VegasGeorge]

Seriously, if you just follow the common sense rules that apply everywhere, California is a relatively safe place. But, I'd still avoid Oakland.

Common sense rules:

Don't be alone;
Don't go into dark alleys;
Don't just "hang out" on the street;
Don't get involved with strangers;
Don't go into low life joints;
Don't do anything illegal or imoral;

Do stay in condition yellow;
Do look like you know where you are and what you're doing;
Do have a destination;
Do dress conservatively;
Do have the area mapped out ahead of time.

[junglebob]

St. Michael, Though you can't conceal carry in California it doesn't mean you couldn't have a firearm along in your vehicle. I went to the office of attorney general for California website- ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php and found that you can transport a pistol, revolver or other concealable firearm if you are 18 and not prohibited from owning a firearm as long as the firearm is unloaded and in a locked container. The trunk qualifies but not the glove or utility compartment. My recommendation is to have a pistol case that locks put a padlock on it and leave the key in it. If it is legal have the ammunition magazine in the case as well. I realize some states consider having a loaded magazine in the vehicle with a firearm as it being loaded. California may not, for Illinois residents it is legal for FOID card holders (Firarm Owner ID) to transport a firearm in the passenger compartment in a case which totally encloses it, with a zipper or snaps and have a loaded magazine with the unloaded firearm. You could even have the case hanging in a gun rack in a pickup truck back window. (Not that I recommend that, it does kind of say STEAL MY GUN! and some anti-gun cop may stop you and harass you) Out of state folks must have it not immediately assessible or broken down in Illinois. The transportation requirements for California are for residents or those temporarily there which I would assume would cover you.

I'm not saying this would be as good as concealed carry, but it would give you some protection while in your vehicle. You might be able to have it in a motel room as well, in Illinois it is considered your abode so you can have a loaded firearm if you wish. Think of it as a half way measure.

[CA CCWInstructor]

. The trunk qualifies but not the glove or utility compartment. My recommendation is to have a pistol case that locks put a padlock on it and leave the key in it. If it is legal have the ammunition magazine in the case as well. I realize some states consider having a loaded magazine in the vehicle with a firearm as it being loaded. California may not,


12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted
classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or
Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from
transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the
following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

A lock with the key in it is not a lock. It is a turning device. We already have a court case on that issue.

Loaded mags with uloaded gun INSIDE the locked container will be deemed as loaded. A loaded mag OUTSIDE the locked container with the unloaded gun inside is not a violation of any penal code.

[Bill of Rights]

Thanks guys. My worry is that I'll be depending a lot on "hope", which LtC Dave Grossman has been quoted as saying "is not a strategy". I think, unfortunately, that I have not much choice. With luck, I'll be able to delay this trip until such time as there is some case which mandates Full Faith and Credit applying to LTCs as well as drivers' licenses. I'm not much for government intrusion into areas that are not it's purview, but I also am a realist and know that my libertarian views are not those of our Congress or our courts. I may not agree with the principle upon which the law was passed, much as I do not agree with the idea of LTCs in the first place, but that does not prevent me from having one and using it to stay within the law.

Blessings,
M

[junglebob]

CaCCWinstructor, Good to have someone here to clairify what is a loaded gun in California, and what a lock is. I hope no one in California trys to defend themselves in a shoot out with a criminal with one of those loaded guns with no round in the chamber and no magazine in the firearm.

[junglebob]

P.S. What does California say about having a loaded firearm in your abode? Does a hotel/motel room qualify?

[CA CCWInstructor]

At your resident, permanent or temporary, hotel etc. You can have a gun in every room. A gun on the rope in the shower ( PLEASE use stainless only). However if you have a child in the house younger than 18, they must be locked or disabled.

[junglebob]

At your resident, permanent or temporary, hotel etc. You can have a gun in every room. A gun on the rope in the shower ( PLEASE use stainless only). However if you have a child in the house younger than 18, they must be locked or disabled.
Does that locked and disabled apply even if you have a CCW license and have the gun on your person? Illinois laws are beginning to look less oppressive than they used to, except for lack of CCW license. Of course some of our liberal legislators would like to pass some California type laws like 1 gun a month and 10 round magazine limits.

[CA CCWInstructor]

No it does not apply to a firearm on your person. You do not need a CCW for your house or residence.

[Stubob]

Thanks to all that posted! I learned a lot!

[EBDPA]

I tell you what St. Michael... you come on up to Northern CA, even Oakland... if you will buy some food along the way, I will give you an escort and be your personal body guard... why does Diane Feinstein have to be the only one feeling same in our fine cities... lol

All kidding aside, I know some fine restaurants.... and I have my CCW...

[Bill of Rights]

I tell you what St. Michael... you come on up to Northern CA, even Oakland... if you will buy some food along the way, I will give you an escort and be your personal body guard... why does Diane Feinstein have to be the only one feeling same in our fine cities... lol

All kidding aside, I know some fine restaurants.... and I have my CCW...

Thanks Craig, I'll keep that in mind. Having a bodyguard for the cost of a few meals is not a bad deal at all. :)

I really hope that Sen. Feinstein decides to do what rumor recently told me she might. The story is that she wants to be Hitlery's running mate. I am of the opinion that this would reasonably guarantee a loss for the donkey party. http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/devil.gif

To quote the old Bugs Bunny cartoons: "Ain't I a stinkah?" http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/fart.gif

Blessings,
M