packing.org

[jeffbl5]

I know packing.oeg's web site is down. I should have printed some onfo from the site when it was functioning. Does anyone know how I can contact Mark Solomon? He was the administrator of the site at one time. I'm thinking maybe he would mail me info from the site. Any help would be appreciated. Oh, and be the way. I renewed my CHL yesterday. Keep packing. :?:

[Stubob]

We tried to buy packing.org as there was lots of good information. We could never get a responce. So we are starting from scratch and having fun. Our Moderators and Contributors are great. We are attracting some valuable talent and we will be a positive, fun, asset for the CCW community.

thanks, and we are looking forward to your posts regarding guns and CCW. Stubob.

[Bill of Rights]

Hi Jeffbl5,

If you do a google search for some general term related to the info you want and specify that you only want results from packing.org, you'll find some of the info still stored in google's cached pages. It's not a perfect solution, but it may get you some specific bit for which you're looking.

Good luck, and welcome to CCDN!

Blessings,
M

[liquibyte]

Try this one:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.packing.org

I use that all the time for pages that aren't around anymore. I don't think you'll get much from the forums though and any page that you really need the info from you'll pretty much have to know the url for it. I think I'll see what I might be able to dig up through cache searches and consolidate the info.

[Bill of Rights]

Hi Liquibyte, and welcome.

While looking up one or two pages for specific info from PDO is probably acceptable, attempting to search and consolidate it all might border upon copyright infringement, and I would use caution in doing so and publicizing it. To do so for your own benefit is probably not a big deal, but making it available to others may cross the line. I don't want to see anyone get into any legal hot water for the "crime" of attempting to help others- it could be argued that Solomon didn't want that info made available anymore, else he'd have just locked the forums and left it up.

It was a great resource in it's time, but as much as I dislike the idea of it not being available anymore, I very much like the idea of being a part of creating something that in time will be even more highly regarded than PDO was in it's prime.

Best and blessings,
M

[liquibyte]

I'm not talking a direct copy here, just consolidating the info itself that they had compiled e.g. urls and the like. At one time, packing.org was the place to go and research the topic, even better than a search engine.

The way the place just abruptly ended makes me wonder if there weren't legal issues involved. From the whois it looks like re-registration has taken place on the domain:

Created On:04-Dec-1999 02:50:56 UTC
Last Updated On:12-Oct-2007 22:59:13 UTC
Expiration Date:04-Dec-2012 02:50:56 UTC

As the owner of this site can tell you, the max you can go for is 10 years. I have contact info (several) but I'm hesitant because I'm sure the man has been innundated with requests. Perhaps it's just that a reorganization is in the works. As far as copyright law goes, though I am no expert, the posts on the boards are copyright the original poster of the content and not the site itself barring a disclaimer upon registration. As far as linking offsite, a url cannot be copyright though they may be able to be trademarked given certain circumstances. I've done my research on this one, believe me. My nick is a perfect example of trademark. I have programs, though amateurish at best, from back before 2000 that bears the name liquibyte on them. I actually waited seven years for the liquibyte.com domain to become available but could have fought and won a dispute due to trademark violation and domain squatting. I didn't have the resources for that so I chose to wait and see what happened. Apparently patience is a virtue because I am now the owner of liquibyte.com, org, net, biz and info.

I will do my best to sanitize the info and will let the powers that be decide. Gathering the information is an undertaking that I'm experienced in doing and feel that it is something that someone needs to do. Just look at any related board and you will see at least one post about packing.org, most likely several. I was thinking that I could, after completion, compress the info into an archive, put it on my site and let those that want to see if it could be used download it and decide for themselves. The legality of my compiling this information for myself falls under fair use, so for that I'm not worried.

[liquibyte]

For instance a recent data-mining expedition on google returns:

40 reasons guns should be banned

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, Detroit & Chicago cops need guns.
2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."
4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.
5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense - give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).
10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.
11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seat belts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.
12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.
13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.
14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.
15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.
16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.
17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons'', but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles'', because they are military weapons.
18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.
19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.
20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.
22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."
23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.
26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."
27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.
28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.
29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self- defense only justifies bare hands.
30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.
31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.
32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.
33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.
34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.
35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self- protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.
37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.
38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.
39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.
40. Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands.

Shamelessly stolen from commenter Pharaoh over at Packing.org

It's a shame that items like this could be lost.

[Bill of Rights]

I see what you're talking about.. Just FYI, though:

http://carryconcealed.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69 :wink:

Still, you're right that good stuff like that shouldn't be lost. I'm only pointing out that 1) I don't think that was original to Pharoah on PDO, but rather copied from elsewhere in the public domain., and 2) Speaking for myself at least, I know I've copied down good stuff like that for my personal files as well. If I go to repost somewhere, I use my stuff for search terms and find it on the net so I can cite a URL, too. :)

Thanks for saving that, BTW. You did a good thing. :)

Blessings,
M

[hpj3]

Last I heard, PDO's owner was off to law school... with some vague ref's to a possible future return - time permitting.

The only problem those of us that operate multi-state had (have) is the way it went down (no pun intended :roll: ) Some advance notice, etc., would have made the transition easier and created far fewer questions/speculation.

It would appear that www.handgunlaw.us is becoming the next version... while it isn't nearly as handy as PDO (it links to the law, not a recap of it), it's better than trying to find the sources manually.

Howard

[Stubob]

It would appear that www.handgunlaw.us is becoming the next version... while it isn't nearly as handy as PDO (it links to the law, not a recap of it), it's better than trying to find the sources manually.

Interesting comment. Have you tried some of the new tools for traveling and reciprosity on our site?

We have even linked to their site and sent notes to have them link back to us. We have the opinion that all of the CCW and Gun Web Sites need to support each other and get the information out there.

We have not been around nearly as long as Handgun but we are going to be around for a long time.

Thanks for your postings.

[junglebob]

I really liked packing.org it was easy to use. It summerized the things about each states CCW laws that you wanted to know, things like what states permits they recognize, places carry is prohibited, whether you must notify law enforcement if stopped for a traffic violation, and also vehicle carry information. It is nice to know if glove box carry is allowed without a permit such as in Kentucky. Also useful would be motel, hotel room restrictions. In Illinois anyone renting a hotel room, unless local ordinance would prohibit, can have a loaded handgun in their room. In Illinois your motel room is considered your abode, and you have the rights you would have in your home.

Are there any states that allow a loaded handgun in the glovebox who don't also recognize all other states permits like Kentucky does? BTW for Kentucky loaded in glovebox is OK, in console is not.

One thing I didn't like about packing.org was they were slow to update and too often down.

[hpj3]

Stubob...

As my join date reflects, I just found this site and haven't had a chance to go thru it yet... but I plan on it in the near future. I like what I see so far.

A couple of observations from an old timer... don't try to get to complicated (as many of the other sites have done). Determine what the site goal is, and then keep it simple. Many of the sites I work have gotten so big and complicated that at times it seems that the original intent has been lost.
As mods, keeping threads on-topic can be a difficult and often thankless task - but a necessary one if the forum is to survive. One of the most-often heard complaints is that threads get hijacked or the level of vitriol going past any sense of civility. A certain degree of free expression is good - and often necessary. Boundaries are, however, necessary.

Just some passing thoughts...

Junglebob...

Regarding your question on vehicle carry, here in SC (if you can legally own the weapon) it can be carried in the glove box or console if it has a lid. doesn't have to be locked. No permit required for this. Can't be under the seat, in door pocket, etc.

Howard

[Stubob]

Thank you - great feed back. What you will see here is that we seek opnions and our moderators run the forum. They provide guidence and direction.

We hope to be a postive fun place for CCW information. You are right and we can get to diverse and not be as effective. We are also are only 7 months old. We are just now learning to crawl, but will get better. Thanks again for the feed back.

[junglebob]

hpj3, Thanks for the info on South Carolina, good to know since my Pa non-resident license isn't recognized by South Carolina, like it is by your neighbor to the north North Carolina.

[hpj3]

hpj3, Thanks for the info on South Carolina, good to know since my Pa non-resident license isn't recognized by South Carolina, like it is by your neighbor to the north North Carolina.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We (GrassRoots Gunrights SC) (scfirearms.org) are working hard to make SC a "recognize all" state. This has been fought by our State Law Enforcement Division (SLED) chief tooth and nail... but he has suddenly resigned - and we're trying to get a replacement who's more gun friendly.

Our current law states that for reciprocity a state must have a training requirement substantially equal to ours. Our focus is to get that law changed. The next legislative session may be our best chance...

Howard

[junglebob]

hpj3, Is a traveler allowed to have a loaded handgun in their motel/hotel room as well? They are in Illinois, this doesn't include lobbys and common areas. Glad to hear that there may be acceptance of all permits in the future.

[hpj3]

Keep it concealed while going in/out... no problem. Goes w/o saying don't leave it unattended in thr room... :roll:

Howard

[Eagle Five Zero]

As a frequent air traveller one of the things I most appreciated about Packing.Org was its Reciprocity Tool. It allowed you to checkmark the states where you have permits and then it listed all the states where your permit was honored.

Very Kewl !!

[Bill of Rights]

As a frequent air traveller one of the things I most appreciated about Packing.Org was its Reciprocity Tool. It allowed you to checkmark the states where you have permits and then it listed all the states where your permit was honored.

Very Kewl !!

Glad to hear you liked that, Eagle, for we have three separate tools that do similar here. I'll note that some of them have some problems in the coding of the maps (for example, that no matter what I do with it, it insists that NM will not recognize a UT non-res CCW) but I go through the official websites of the states every few weeks and update the reciprocity lists. I hasten to note that the written list of recognizing states will be accurate, even if the image representation is not. Conversely, on the "legal" pages, at present, clicking the name of the state will result in an error, but clicking the map will take you to the proper page. The legal pages can be found at http://carryconcealed.net/legal/ or you can click the "The Law" link on the navigation bar up top. From there you can also access the Multi State Reciprocity Tool or the Pack-n-Go map.

Blessings,
B