Carrying without a Permit

[VegasGeorge]

OK, I'll admit it. There were times when I lived in California when I would carry my gun. Of course, I had no permit. I didn't do it often, and only when I felt threatened by having to travel at night or in more dangerous areas. At the time, I was living by the motto: "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." I thank God that I never had to test that philosophy in real life. And, I thank God that I now live in the Free State of Nevada, where I have my CCW permit.

Now, I'm certainly NOT advocating that anyone do what I did. Whether you live in a Free State or a Servile State, you should obey the law, work within the system to change the law, or get out. But, this raises an interesting question that effects all of us 2nd Amendment proponents.

How large a population of non-permitted gun carriers are out there? And, does their willingness to carry, at least occasionally, temper their fervor for supporting changes in the law? If they're willing to take a chance and carry illegally when they feel the need, will they be sufficiently motivated to support the NRA and other groups fighting to establish our 2nd Amendment rights?

[CA CCWInstructor]

I have talk to several folks that have CCW's and still open carry. They are doing it for their rights. Not for the movement.

[kcty]

Personally, I do not open carry very often. I'm not a real big guy (I'm not a small guy either, more normal size) and my concern is that a bigger guy could possibly over power me and take my gun if it is just out in plain site. Because of that, my preference is to carry concealed as much as possible. That way, I have the advantage if I ever need it.

As far as carrying without a permit, I don't know of anyone carrying without a permit. Here in MO, you can open carry without a permit and I do see that from time to time, but I'm not aware of anyone carrying concealed without a permit. But honestly speaking, I'm not sure they'd tell me if they were doing it. It's not really something I think a lot of people would share.

[Poogsdad]

I am aware of a few people who may, on occasion, carry a concealed firearm without a CCW. They are, with very few exceptions, good decent people who contribute positively to society.

Some have expressed an interest in obtaining a CCW and are, in my opinion, members of a subset of people that face a higher than average likelihood of being targeted for violence, in spite of their active attempts to aviod such interactions.

I, in no way, advocate violating the law, particularly CCW laws, and try to assist people in obtaining a CCW when I can. Of those that have initiated and completed the application process based upon my recommendation, all have recieved a CCW Permit. Unfortunately, they represent a rather small percentage of the total number. For whatever reason, the majority never complete the application process, though they may start it.

If they would get off their butts and finish the application process, the issuance rate in my county would increase significantly.

I suspect that my comments above are not unique to my county and are applicable to most other counties in California and possibly other states as well.

To quote Glock32, a founding member and regular contributor to the CalCCW Forum,"Fact is it's like with most things in life: You need to really want it and you have to work for it. I believe the 'working for it' part is what keeps the numbers low".

Thanks,

[Bill of Rights]

To quote Glock32, a founding member and regular contributor to the CalCCW Forum,"Fact is it's like with most things in life: You need to really want it and you have to work for it. I believe the 'working for it' part is what keeps the numbers low".

And this is a travesty. Do we have to "really want" all of our rights? Do we "have to work for" them?

No, I think that especially today, Veteran's Day, we should recognize that some people already "really want" us to have all of our rights and those people have already "worked for" us to have them. Those people are:
The American Soldier
The American Sailor
The American Airman
The American Marine
The American Coast Guardsman
The American Patriots and
The American Founders

Note that gender-specific language is used inclusively of all who fit the above definitions, not solely those who happen to be male.

Those who have brainwashed us to think that we somehow must be and/or must prove ourselves worthy of being allowed by our government to have our rights effectively spit on the honor and memory of each and every group I named above, and if they've not yet been found guilty of treason, it's only because they've buffaloed the caretakers of the criminal justice system. They're making every effort to steal our freedoms and our rights, and it just proves the old saying:

There is no honor among thieves.

To our American http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/St-Michael/USA.gif veterans, I offer my thanks.

Blessings,
M

[nodaywithout]

i have known of people that will occasionally carry without a permit. but when they do, they have had good reason too.

now the only time i carry (until i get my permit) is in my own home mainly to get used to it and to find out what clothes i can wear and can not wear to make sure i can conceal in public (when i am legal) without anyone but my close friends knowing that i am carring.

[Otto]

I carry everyday, it is my right. I have a CCW, a granted "privelege" that allows me to exercise my right.

My CCW restricts which firearms I may carry. To add additional firearms means additional fees, tests, etc. for the "privelege". What B.S.

I've passed their test, background check, and all the other roadblocks that they can thow at you to restrict my right. I carry what I want, when I want and I'll fight them in court...as is my right

Otto

[VegasGeorge]

Laws get enacted or repealed when enough public pressure builds up to convince politicians to enact changes. I'm simply wondering if there are sufficient people ignoring the law, and carrying illegally, to effectively reduce the pressure on politicians to liberalize restrictive gun laws.

I was thinking of myself as an example. Back when I was in California, I simply elected to ignore the law and carry when I needed to. My primary desire for self defense was satisfied, so I didn't feel compelled to put any effort into trying to get the gun laws changed. It was selfish, as well as illegal behavior. I was not being a responsible citizen. If tens of thousands of people acted as I did, then there would be that many fewer voices demanding change.

[pioneer461]

During my career, I've known many people who carry without a permit. Most of them have been convicted felons, or others who would not qualify for a permit, nor do they bother obeying the other laws that interfere with their criminal enterprises.

I understand your desire to carry sans permit at times, but you are running a risk in doing so. You're okay until you get stopped by the cops and get talked into allowing a search of your car. My advise is to politely decline to allow any officer to search without a search warrant.

Congratulations on leaving California, I left there 27 years ago.

[SnowCajun]

i have known of people that will occasionally carry without a permit. but when they do, they have had good reason too.

I have a CCW now and have had for about eight years, yet I carried for years without a license and this is why! I'm 55 years old now, many years ago I was working as a truckdriver in Houston, we'd go to mini-warehouses at night, no one would be there and they'd be all closed up and locked. We'd usually go to these places between midnight and 5am and they were all so dark, I'd have to back the truck into the loading dock, get out, walk up to the door and unlock it to get in, then find the lightswitch for the inside. I don't know why they never left outside lights on but they didn't.

One time I remember I found someone hiding behind the dumpster outside, when the rear of my trailer got past the dumpster as I was backing in to the dock door, when I hit my brakes the trailers brakelights illumiated the wall of the building and I saw a head sticking out peeping around the corner of the dumpster. Needless to say I got out with my pistol hidden under my clipboard. I persuaded this idiot to leave the area explaining to him that hiding behind things like that could get him seriously injured had he jumped out and scared me.

The second time was rather scarey for both me and the person this happened to, when I'd back in to the loading dock my trailer would back against rubber padding, it'd be next to impossible to squeeze between the padding and trailer to get it, at least that's what I thought. It was quite common for police officers to stop by wanting newspapers, they'd yell at us from outside between the rubber bumper and our trailer. They were wanting the preprinted guts for the next afternoons headlines, or comics not due out for several days, they wanted them because they had all the ads in them.

I was unloading my trailer with an electric palletjack one morning when someone tapped me on the shoulder and said, "hey" ... I dropped to the floor and came out with my .45 .. as I was swinging to point at him I realized it was a police officer and I just laid back breathing hard and said, "good God man, you scared 10 years of my life out of me." He had managed to get in the building between the padded loading door bumpers and the trailer. He apologized over and over saying he knew he shouldn't have done that.. and I apologized as well, but he said, "look, I know you guys have to come to these places alone at night, I wouldn't come here either without something to protect myself", he said, "I should have never come in on you like this, I'm really sorry" .. I gave him the papers and comics he was after and he left never saying anything at all about my unlicensed weapon that came out of a shoulder holster.

Was I wrong to carry illegally, well sure I was legally, and I guess had I been caught and convicted early on I'd not have my license now! I look at it this way though, I know of at least two times in my adult life that having a weapon on my person either saved my life or saved me from serious injury. I'm not one to go around showing off my gun, in fact people I've known for years have no idea I even carry, and that's how it should be to be honest. Guns aren't something to be boasted about, if you're boasting about them then in my view of it you probably shouldn't be carrying them in the first place. They don't make you a big man, or woman, they're there to protect your life, or your loved ones lives, or anyone elses for that matter. People who feel carrying concealed makes them hotshots are missing the boat. That's what I truly believe anyway!

SnowCajun

[BiblicalFirst]

Hello SnowCajun. Thanks for sharing your experiences. My Dad drove a delivery truck at night when he was going to college. He has some stories, but didn't begin carrying till years later. :)

[Dogman]

I carry everyday, it is my right. I have a CCW, a granted "privelege" that allows me to exercise my right.

My CCW restricts which firearms I may carry. To add additional firearms means additional fees, tests, etc. for the "privelege". What B.S.

I've passed their test, background check, and all the other roadblocks that they can thow at you to restrict my right. I carry what I want, when I want and I'll fight them in court...as is my right

Otto


Do you mean that your CCW has on it which type of firearm that you can carry? Is this a Las Vegas or Nevada law?
In Indiana our LTCH covers any handgun that you own, you can also OC or CC with a LTCH.

[brotherbill3]

I don't think I know anyone who has carried illegally or w/o the proper license ... then again ... maybe I have or maybe it predates licenses ... I've heard a tale of my grandpa carrying the revolver I have now (or perhaps an older one, that is now gone) when he would go fishing in PA (way back 40+ years ago) just in case he ran into anyone/anything that was less 'cooperative' ...

Do you mean that your CCW has on it which type of firearm that you can carry? Is this a Las Vegas or Nevada law?
In Indiana our LTCH covers any handgun that you own, you can also OC or CC with a LTCH.

Dogman / B.O.R Question -
and my main reason for posting ... and I don't mean to hi-jack the thread ...
Does the indiana law ONLY cover handguns that you own? ... or does it provide a legal means to carry ANY hand gun? ... I ask because I only have a .22 LR revolver, but my nephew (LEO & Jail Guard) has a Glock .40 that I was contemplating asking to borrow when I get to go to the range for an upcoming weekend that he cannot attend (but his son might be going along w/ us too) ... or what if I borrowed another pistol from some other friend ?

[Bill of Rights]

Dogman / B.O.R Question -
and my main reason for posting ... and I don't mean to hi-jack the thread ...
Does the indiana law ONLY cover handguns that you own? ... or does it provide a legal means to carry ANY hand gun? ... I ask because I only have a .22 LR revolver, but my nephew (LEO & Jail Guard) has a Glock .40 that I was contemplating asking to borrow when I get to go to the range for an upcoming weekend that he cannot attend (but his son might be going along w/ us too) ... or what if I borrowed another pistol from some other friend ?


Hey Bro. Bill,
The answer is written right there on the Pepto-Bismol-pink card:
"The Licensee is hereby licensed by The Indiana State Police to carry on their person or in a vehicle, any handgun lawfully possessed by Licensee...."

(emphasis mine)

In essence, if you didn't steal it, you can carry it, though I'm sure there are nuances and exceptions to this very general statement.

Hope that helps! :thumbsup:

Blessings,
Bill

[mp3mogul]

I've carried on occasion without a permit, when I too felt there could be danger. I've had a permit over the last 30 years, give or take the times I let it expire.... these are the times that I carried without a permit.... but not often.

I don't advocate it either, but a person has to do what is right for him/her.

[VegasGeorge]

I just wanted to jump back in here to say that I am NOT recommending that anyone do as I did and carry without a permit. On reflection, I view it as a mistake, and something I should never have done. But, leaving California was one of the best things I ever did.

[BiblicalFirst]

Here in Connecticut, a pistol permit is not restricted to just one pistol. What is it in Nevada? I would think that Nevada would have more friendly laws than we have here in CT.

[VegasGeorge]

Here in Nevada we have a odd situation. If you test with a revolver, they put "revolver" on your permit, and you can carry any revolver. However, you must test with each pistol, and they have to be individually listed on your permit. You can have both revolver and one or more pistols listed. You can carry more than one concealed weapon at the same time as long as they are all listed on your permit.