Gun Debate over self defence -15 year old shot

[Stubob]

Cleveland man caught up in gun debate - A 15 Year old robs a legal CCW Permit holder - I am sorry the kid is dead, but we have a right to defend ourselfs when we are being held up at gun point by thugs or terrorists.

Posted by Damian G. Guevara and Patrick O’Donnell April 23, 2007 19:56PM
Categories: Breaking News, Crime
Damon Wells is the man gun supporters imagined when they fought for the right to carry concealed weapons.

He had a permit to carry his gun, and he had the gun on him when a pair of teenage thieves approached him Saturday night on his front porch.

When one of the youths pulled a gun, Wells whipped out his and shot one of the boys multiple times in the chest, police said.

Arthur Buford, 15, died after stumbling away and collapsing on a sidewalk near East 134th Street and Kinsman Road.

City prosecutors decided Monday that Wells, 25, was justified and would not be charged for what appears to be the first time a concealed-carry permit holder has shot and killed an attacker.

Nonetheless, the shooting reignited the debate that roared three years ago when Ohio's concealed-carry law took effect.

Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.

An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday and set up a memorial at the intersection where Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, died.

His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned why police refused to punish Buford's shooter. "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead."

Buford's accomplice disappeared after the shooting and had not been caught Monday night. Police found a .38-caliber handgun in the mail chute of a nearby house. They believe it belonged to Buford or the other suspect, Lt. Thomas Stacho said.

Police took a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson firearm from Wells, the police report shows.

Both sides of the gun debate said it was sad that a teenager died.

"It's tragic," said Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearm Association. "Anytime somebody dies it's tragic, but it's hard to have any sympathy when he chose to have a gun and go threaten somebody's life."

Irvine said it was "great that a potential victim is able to continue his life instead of having a criminal take it."

Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder.

"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.

But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."

A man who answered phone a number for Wells refused to comment and hung up. No one answered the door at Wells' home.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/04/cleveland_man_caught_in_gun_co.html

[Bill of Rights]

Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.

That's true. More true, however, is that the 15-year-old might be alive if he hadn't been unlawfully carrying a weapon AND using it to rob innocent, law-abiding, peaceable citizens.

His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned why police refused to punish Buford's shooter. "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead."

Yeah, funny thing, Tameka. They do that when, you know, someone hasn't committed any crimes. You'd prefer the law-abiding, peaceable citizen be the one dead, simply because he refused to give up whatever it was your criminal cousin wanted from him?


Both sides of the gun debate said it was sad that a teenager died.

"It's tragic," said Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearm Association. "Anytime somebody dies it's tragic, but it's hard to have any sympathy when he chose to have a gun and go threaten somebody's life."

Irvine said it was "great that a potential victim is able to continue his life instead of having a criminal take it."


It is sad that someone is dead, even tragic, but the fact is that the article should be identifying the criminal as such, not tugging at our heartstrings by describing him as "the 15-year-old", evoking images of Wally Cleaver or Richie Cunningham in all their fresh-faced glory.


Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder.

"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.

But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."


Few? Oh. Yes. I suppose 2,500,000 times a year isn't really that often, is it? And yes, there is a dead kid (who happened to be an armed robber, at the least) here.

You'll pardon me, I'm sure, if I'm not shedding any tears. Buford's life of crime was cut short by his own actions and choices. Maybe others will see what happened to him and some crimes prevented.

Blessings,
M

[VegasGeorge]

It's truly horrible that a 15 year old is dead. It is an outrage. But, those people I read about in this post are completely missing the point. They should be outraged, but not at the man who shot the kid. They should be outraged at the kid's parents, his teachers, his minister, his uncles and aunts, his adult friends, and everyone else who failed this kid. The kid wouldn't be dead if he had been supervised, disciplined, educated, and taught in a responsible manner. As long as the community continues to produce hooligan punks, who have no better idea than to attempt armed robberies , there are going to be dead kids. Someone should tell these people that it's their fault, and to shut up and do better next time.

[Bill of Rights]

George, I'm not sure I want there to be a next time. They screwed up and created a criminal at least once- I don't want them to spawn and try again! :wink:

Blessings,
M

[nodaywithout]

They should be outraged, but not at the man who shot the kid. They should be outraged at the kid's parents, his teachers, his minister, his uncles and aunts, his adult friends, and everyone else who failed this kid......

I agree, personally when i was a youngin my father had a belt with metal rings inbeded into it, then he had a few belts that were leather.
If i did something bad i got the painful feeling of up to 30 licks of this metal/leather belt on my rear end.

the result, I have never done drugs, robbed anyone or even goten anything more than a speeding ticked (teen age years got to love'em)

I have no sypathy for this kid, but my heart does go out to those whom loved him and only did right by him

[VegasGeorge]

I just want to add an addendum to my above remarks.

I recognize that some kids are just so bad, so filled with evil, that no amount of decent upbringing will straighten them out. But, thankfully, those cases are few and far between. Left on their own, and surrounded by today's corrupting influences, lots of young people aren't going to reach the level of maturity it takes to start making right choices until they reach their twenties. Like the 15 year old in this thread, they make wrong choices with little or no regard for probable consequences. And, thanks to the constant propaganda of the Godless, hedonistic, secular humanist, liberal media, entertainment industry, and politicians, these young people are deeply confused about right and wrong and don't understand their responsibilities as members of a free society. That's why it's so critically important for them to have mature, adult influences in their young lives.

[Genghis77]

Because the kid had a gun, I dismiss any consideration of youth. A justifiable shooting.

[Raccoon]

As one of my Sargeants one said, "They know the rules of engagement."

[Sermon8r]

It's truly horrible that a 15 year old is dead. It is an outrage. But, those people I read about in this post are completely missing the point. They should be outraged, but not at the man who shot the kid. They should be outraged at the kid's parents, his teachers, his minister, his uncles and aunts, his adult friends, and everyone else who failed this kid. The kid wouldn't be dead if he had been supervised, disciplined, educated, and taught in a responsible manner. As long as the community continues to produce hooligan punks, who have no better idea than to attempt armed robberies , there are going to be dead kids. Someone should tell these people that it's their fault, and to shut up and do better next time.

Amen.