Rhode Island - Shall Issue or May Issue ?

[MeAgain]

On the www.handgunlaws.us website it was updated today and Rhode Island is now
listed as a "SHALL ISSUE" State.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/state-link.htm

on the www.NRAILA.org site its listed as a "Restrictive May Issue"
http://www.nraila.org/recmap/rhodeislandrec.pdf

I tried searching the Rhode Island Attorney Generals site for confirmation on this but
was unsuccessful
http://www.riag.state.ri.us/ag/

anyone have more information on this ?

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[Bill of Rights]

I just searched their state laws and could not find any enacted legislation to indicate shall issue, but it's possible I might have missed something. There was a bill submitted in 2006 that would have made them shall-issue if the applicant already held a LTC from another state, however it appears that that died in committee. The phrasing of it separated "Shall" and "Issue" by perhaps 25 words or more, though, so it's possible something did pass of which I'm not yet aware. You'd think it would be publicized somewhere along with the Brady Bunch rebuttal wringing hands, gnashing teeth, and wetting panties, but I found naught.

Keep looking, though, and if anyone's from the area, please let us know!

Thanks and Blessings,
M

[MeAgain]

According to http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/PublicLaws/law07/law07368.htm
it seems Rhode Island is still a "*MAY ISSUE" state

Introduced By: Representative John J. McCauley

Date Introduced: June 20, 2007

It is enacted by the General Assembly as follows:

SECTION 1. Section 11-47-18 of the General Laws in Chapter 11-47 entitled "Weapons"

is hereby amended to read as follows:

11-47-18. License or permit issued by attorney general on showing of need --

Issuance to retired police officers. -- (a) The attorney general may issue a license or permit to

any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over to carry a pistol or revolver, whether concealed

or not, upon his or her person upon a proper showing of need, subject to the provisions of sections

11-47-12 and 11-47-15; that license or permit may be issued notwithstanding the provisions of

section 11-47-7.

(b) All state police officers and permanent members of city and town police forces of

this state who have retired in good standing after at least twenty (20) years of service, or retired in

good standing due to a physical disability other than a psychological impairment, may be issued a

license or permit by the attorney general subject to the provisions of sections 11-47-12 and 11-47-

15. The term "in good standing" means that at the time of retirement the police officer was not

facing disciplinary action that could have resulted in his or her termination for misconduct or

unfitness for office. Any member of the licensing authority, and its agents, servants, and

employees shall be immune from suit in any action, civil or criminal, based upon any official act

or decision, performed or made in good faith in issuing a license or permit under this chapter.

(c) Notwithstanding any other chapter or section of the general laws of the state of

Rhode Island, the attorney general shall not provide or release to any individual, firm, association

or corporation the name, address, or date of birth of any person who has held or currently holds a

license or permit to carry a concealed pistol or revolver. This section shall not be construed to

prohibit the release of any statistical data of a general nature relative to age, gender and racial or

ethnic background nor shall it be construed to prevent the release of information to parties

involved in any prosecution of section 11-47-8 or in response to a lawful subpoena in any

criminal or civil action which said person is a party to such action.

SECTION 2. This act shall take effect *upon passage.


* Im still searching to see if it was passed per SECTION 2


11-47 -63
microstamping coming in 2010 to automatic weapons in Rhode Island
http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/billtext07/housetext07/h6343.pdf

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[Tanzer]

I am an unrestricted CCP holder in RI. Maybe I can help. Check your first link, click on the state of RI - a PDF file appears. I can't cut & paste a PDF, but scroll to page 3 and read the introduction. You will see it is a "may issue" state requiring a "proper showing of need". I was able to show this, but it takes a bit of a "Fred Astaire" routine and having a friend who was the former deputy in charge didn't hurt.
It is a rarity in RI to hold any permit here, never mind an unrestricted one. The deputy is a good guy, but has to follow the rules.
I have not heard of any changes in the 11-47 laws, and don't anticipate any. The statutory language is designed to give local officials a strong say in the issuance of permits. Non-resident permits are subject to the same requirements.
RI is a small state with a lot of political interconnections. Consider yourself lucky to reside in Vermont.
Hope this helps. Feel free to ask if you have more questions & I'll try to help.

[Stubob]

Here is the text - § 11-47-11 License or permit to carry concealed pistol or revolver. – (a) The licensing authorities of any city or town shall, upon application of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having a bona fide residence or place of business within the city or town, or of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having a bona fide residence within the United States and a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person issued by the authorities of any other state or subdivision of the United States, issue a license or permit to the person to carry concealed upon his or her person a pistol or revolver everywhere within this state for four (4) years from date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear an injury to his or her person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol or revolver, and that he or she is a suitable person to be so licensed. The license or permit shall be in triplicate in form to be prescribed by the attorney general and shall bear the fingerprint, photograph, name, address, description, and signature of the licensee and the reason given for desiring a license or permit and in no case shall it contain the serial number of any firearm. The original shall be delivered to the licensee. Any member of the licensing authority, its agents, servants, and employees shall be immune from suit in any action, civil or criminal, based upon any official act or decision, performed or made in good faith in issuing a license or permit under this chapter.

I am not an atty. But the language states shall. The ccw permits are issued by the local authorities. The Atty General for the State has the option of issueing permits. several folks have written in about this issue and we had already updated our site to reflect this informaton.

[MeAgain]

Stubob

from all the Residents I've chatted with since that post, states its a MAY ISSUE


from the text you posted Here is the text - § 11-47-11 License or permit to carry concealed pistol or revolver. – (a) The licensing authorities of any city or town shall, upon application of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having a bona fide residence or place of business within the city or town, or of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having a bona fide residence within the United States and a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person issued by the authorities of any other state or subdivision of the United States, issue a license or permit to the person to carry concealed upon his or her person a pistol or revolver everywhere within this state for four (4) years from date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear

notice there was no (.) period between the word "shall" and " if it appears that the applicant"

---

[Stubob]

I have chunked a note out to have it cleared up. We want it right. Thank you for bringing this up.

RI has two issueing athorities. The Atty General is clearly a maybe, and the other language for the local law enforcement says shall issue if anyone can demonstrate that they are in danger. The language is poorly written. Almost anyone can demonstrate they need a gun in any town in America - We respect the Law Enforcement Community and we thank them for their service. The problem, they are the reactive part of a security plan for an American Citizens home.

I will see what the atty says. He may suggest getting a opinion from the Atty General. Are you aware of any Atty General opnions from RI? The bottom line - the wording is bad, and thank you for brining this up!

[Tanzer]

This is what I was trying to say in my last post;
if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear an injury to his or her person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol or revolver, and that he or she is a suitable person to be so licensed.
This was carefully worded, trust me.
RI has two issueing athorities. The Atty General is clearly a maybe, and the other language for the local law enforcement says shall issue if anyone can demonstrate that they are in danger. The language is poorly written. Almost anyone can demonstrate they need a gun in any town in America
Not quite. You need to get the go-ahead of your local police cheif, THEN convince the AG's office.
Fact; YOU WILL BE DENIED. You then file an appeal, get dressed up ,all nice, and go for an interview.
The language is poorly written.
There's a reason for this. I explained it in my last post.
Almost anyone can demonstrate they need a gun in any town in America
I really don't want to seem perjorative, but you're not from 'round here, are ya'? This does not hold true in RI. They are looking to deny you, plain and simple. To say any more would be, well... not in good taste.
The entirety of the RI school system is smaller than the Dallas Ft Worth system. The Gambino crime family never came here because they would look like a boy scout troop compared to the general assembly. We wait for our politicians to get out of jail so we can re-elect them.
Believe me, or not. Your call.
I know I'm new here, and I'm not trying to be "punchy", but I've been in RI for 44 years, and it is a different place.

[Stubob]

Thank you for pointing out all of the issues.

This is exactly why this site is here for people to have good conversations about these issues. You are right, I am not frm these parts in RI. I have seen on many forums were people can not have discussions and disagree. It does not matter to us as a team at Carryconcealed.net how RI shows up on the map except we want the actual data out there.

We have it still on the main RI page as Restrictive May Issue, with a line under stating shall issue at the local level. We will add language to indicate the problem and see what the atty says.

We may not get an Atty General opinion if he is anti gun.

Do you know how many CCW Permits are in RI?

[Tanzer]

Posted by stubob;
We may not get an Atty General opinion if he is anti gun.
You probably won't, or you may get the traditional double-speak. I actually talk to him from time to time. We go to the same health club. I don't talk shop in the steamroom & I think he appreciates it.
In fairness, he's got a lot on his plate. E.G. The Station Night Club fire, The Indian Smoke Shop raid etc. I don't know if these made national news, but they're big issues & he's catching a lot of heat.
His brother is head of the Democratic party in RI. Like I said, small state. Also he is anti gun. If it weren't for a few watchdog groups, like you folks here, We'd be reduced to sling-shots.

And;

Do you know how many CCW Permits are in RI?
I don't know the actual number, but they are rare for private citizens. Retired LEO's and corrections officials can get them fairly easily. They can show need due to the fact that they've put people away.
I'm friends with the former deputy in charge of issuing permits (under the former AG - now US Senator). I did my CCP training/qualification with him. He expressed frustration about the system. Owners of, say, a jewelery store can get a permit because of their "need" no matter how much of an a*s they may be, but good-intentioned private citizens are highly scrutinized in order to keep the numbers low.
I don't want to delve much deeper because I don't want to put any friends on the spot. As we all know, one must be very careful what they post on the internet - it's there for the world to see.
In a nutshell, the state is very liberal. We always appoint a republican Governor and the entirety of the political body, from mayors to the legislature is completely democratic. I guess folks feel they're balancing power. Don't forget, Patrick Kennedy, nephew of JFK, is one of our congressman. "Camelot" still holds here. He always squeaks by the elections because of his name, regardless of his embarassing actions. :P The union leaders are royalty. Issues regarding the second ammendment seldom make it to the speaker's desk.
Recently, the census has shown that residents are leaving in droves. You can't get a job (especially union) unless you're "connected". Want to be a teacher? Better have a relative in the system. The D.O.T. is a joke. We have a bridge spanning the Barrington River, about 150 yards across, under repair. It has taken more time and money than the total cost of the Golden Gate bridge, and it's not even half-done. The "temporary" bridge has had to be refitted. Ergo, we don't always get the best, but rather the best connected.
I've gone on this rant to try to point out that things just work differently here. Sorry for it's lenghtyness. It sure would be good if you could get some answers. We citizens sure can't.
I will say that the police departments have come a long way in the last twenty years. Most are well rounded, but some small towns... well, I'll stop there. One big exception to the rule; Our state troopers are cream of the crop. They do our state proud - very professional and very good law men and women. A very select group. I suggest anyone travelling through the state give them the utmost respect.
Because of our small size, I needed a MA non-resident permit (easier to get, but expensive), because it's hard to get from one place to another without crossing the state line. It's a felony to carry in MA without a permit. Once I had the RI permit, I applied in MA, NH and ME also because I have a summer home in Maine. NH and ME practically thanked me for getting a permit! Now I can travel without worry.
*One more little note - That "shall issue" at the local level. It's definitely not shall issue. I believe there is some obscure reasoning that gives a local cheif some authority, But RI towns are small - It would be silly. I am not very familiar with this issue, and I can't honestly say I'm much of an authority on this, but it's irrelevant.

[junglebob]

I am an unrestricted CCP holder in RI. Maybe I can help. Check your first link, click on the state of RI - a PDF file appears. I can't cut & paste a PDF, but scroll to page 3 and read the introduction. You will see it is a "may issue" state requiring a "proper showing of need". I was able to show this, but it takes a bit of a "Fred Astaire" routine and having a friend who was the former deputy in charge didn't hurt.
It is a rarity in RI to hold any permit here, never mind an unrestricted one. The deputy is a good guy, but has to follow the rules.
I have not heard of any changes in the 11-47 laws, and don't anticipate any. The statutory language is designed to give local officials a strong say in the issuance of permits. Non-resident permits are subject to the same requirements.
RI is a small state with a lot of political interconnections. Consider yourself lucky to reside in Vermont.
Hope this helps. Feel free to ask if you have more questions & I'll try to help.
Tanzer, What is the difference between carry with a regular permit and an unrestricted one? Since permits are difficult to get is the so called "fanny pack carry" practiced by some of us Illinoisans legal? The definition of this is carrying an unloaded pistol in a case (fanny pack or similar) along with a loaded magazine, (Illinois Firearm Owners ID also required) Or would Rhode Island consider this as loaded? What are the requirements for transporting a firearm? "Fanny Pack Carry" which could be called more correctly "Fanny Pack Transport" follows the statutes reguarding transporting a firearm. You can also of course tranport it broken down, and not immediately accessible, which would apply to non-Illinois residents.

I see that open carry is considered legal for those with an AG issued permit but not one issued by a police chief.

Since your state doesn't recognize any non-resident permits state puts visitors in the some boat as the "right denied state" of Illinois, reduced to slingshots. I realize that technically Rhode Island does issue non-resident permits. Any chance I could get one if I'm not Fred Astaire?

[Tanzer]

junglebob, you asked;
Tanzer, What is the difference between carry with a regular permit and an unrestricted one?
I don't believe I mentioned a "regular" one, but I would equate that with an unrestricted one. That is a permit to carry wherever legal.
A restricted permit may be issued. It may restrict the holder to carry only when at work, or some similar confines.
is the so called "fanny pack carry" practiced by some of us Illinoisans legal?
Not at all legal without a permit. The firearm must be secured. Ammo must be kept seperate and the action must remain open, and transport is restricted to "in vehicle". Travellers may "pass through", but not stay for any period. You may not carry a gun upon your person without a permit.
You can also of course tranport it broken down, and not immediately accessible, which would apply to non-Illinois residents.
Yes. This is the rule for transport.
I see that open carry is considered legal for those with an AG issued permit but not one issued by a police chief.
To be honest, I'm foggy on this one. The best I can rationalize is the wording on p 18 regarding 11-47-18 - " the attorney general may issue a license or permit........to carry a pistol or revolver, whether concealed or not, upon his or her person........"
OC would not be well received here, and the wording is so muddled that I would not trust it unless I consulted an attorney. I personally have no desire to OC, so I haven't really looked into this. Sorry I can't help more than to suggest that no one attempt it.
I realize that technically Rhode Island does issue non-resident permits.
Traveler's Guide to the Firearms Laws of the Fifty States, J. Scott Kappas, Esq, p49, states; "Nonresidents with carry permits from other states may apply.... but must be at least 21 years of age and articulate a proper showing of need" I cannot find this in my copies of the statutes except in the instructions for application #6, stating; "All non-resident applications must include a copy of the applicant's home state permit". There are 33 pages of statutes in front of me, forgive me for not being able to find it, even in the index of sections.
Conclusion; It's a complicated issue.
Any chance I could get one if I'm not Fred Astaire?
Unlikely, but almost everyone told me I'd never get one, and I did. I appealed my denial, and spoke eloquently. I brought character references, and stated true reasons why I could consider myself to be in need. In the end, I feel the deputy was satisfied that I was a good candidate who did my homework and went to a lot of trouble to be sitting across from him.

[junglebob]

Tanzer, Thanks for enlightening me on Rhode Island carry laws. You mentioned a resticted permit could be for business. Does this mean a business owner can't carry in his business without a permit? "Right denied" Illinois allows this, BTW.

Interesting that you say a person may not carry a gun on his person with out a permit. Does this mean you can't park across the street from a gun shop and carry it in on foot, if you don't have a permit?

[Tanzer]

junglebob,
Maybe we're getting into semantics here.
You may protect/carry a gun your own property as much as you wish. A non-permit holder can mow his/her lawn with a gun in a holster OC or CC. Likewise, someone who owns a premisis may carry upon their property. Just don't take a single step off it. A person working for a business can obtain a restricted permit.
A friend of mine ( the junior rifle league coach at my local club), holds a restricted permit because he carries .22 cal Anshutz rifles to matches, and he can carry at work due to the nature of his job. He is not the owner, but carries cash. Hence, he can carry to rifle league events, to and from work, and while he's at work. He cannot carry at Wal-Mart, to the supermarket, at a restaurant etc.
Interesting that you say a person may not carry a gun on his person with out a permit. Does this mean you can't park across the street from a gun shop and carry it in on foot, if you don't have a permit?
Once again, semantics. I was referring to a gun and a loaded magazine, which I believe you were referring to as "fanny pack carry" If you purchase a firearm, it will come (usually) in a case or satchel. If you also purchase ammo for said weapon, you won't have a problem bringing it to your car, but you do need to store them seperately for the ride home. Technically, you may have pointed out a "glitch". Now that you've pointed it out, I suppose you'd technically need to put the firearm in the car, then go back for the ammo. You've got me stumped on that one. I've reloaded for years, so I don't think much about it. - good question!
Since I was referring to your question about carrying in a fanny pack; If you're at the supermarket with a firearm and a loaded magazine in a fanny pack, with no permit, you've got some 'splainin' to do if you get caught.
**Here's another little anecdote about CCW in RI:
My wife also passed the CCW course. She has every bit as much "showing of need" as I do. The reason she was denied and failed the appeal: I already have a CWP and am considered to be able to be her protector! BTW- we are not siamese twins - we actually do spend a few hours apart each day. To have argued this however, may have placed my permit in jeopordy, so she didn't pursue it. This may help to show the nature of the process in our state. Hopefully, you've picked up on the idea that I'm choosing my words carefully.