Gun Free Zones work!

[Stubob]

This just in from Fox news - It is worth watching! Pass it on -


http://youtube.com/watch?v=aeo05uPMmn4

:lol:

[nodaywithout]

If only it was that easy, all we would need is Gun free, Drug free, knife free, murder free, and crime free zone signs all over the world and it would be a much nicer place for us all

[VegasGeorge]

Well, I do agree with the last part, it IS time to stop the madness!

I thought it was unfortunate that the video didn't show the effectiveness of the Gun Free Zone in any of the real world places, you know, schools, university campuses, churches, and other scenes of actual mass murders where gun free zones had been declared.

A funny video just the same.

[Genghis77]

I risk becoming unpopular here. But I control my home and set rules. CCW or not, if I choose you do not bring a gun into my home that is my right. Businesses and work places also have this right. I do not, however extend that to entire communites that attempt to prohibit firearms.

In Arizona, firearms are prohibited in the state legislature. This results from a shooting years ago.

Had teachers been Armed at Cirginia Tech, I think losses would have been less. Had students been armed, I think likely even higher losses. Colleges have higher suicide and mental problems in students than the average population. Sorry for my extremism but I think it might be much like arming a mental hospital. No, there are some limits.

[Bill of Rights]

I completely agree with you that you control your home and business owners control their businesses. I like the system in some places, including Indiana, which say that if the owner or his agent say you must leave and you do not, you risk trespassing charges, but that is all. I don't think it should be a crime just to walk past a sign or to otherwise enter a place armed-that is, not a separate crime, e.g. entered a bar with a weapon on his hip. If a designated driver is only going to drink water, why should he not be able to be armed?

Just my $0.02

Blessings,
M

[VegasGeorge]

I think we have to respect the rights of the private property owner. If he or she doesn't want guns on the property, then I think a posting should be sufficient. But, I think a violation of that posting, i.e. carrying a gun onto the property, should simply amount to a trespass, and be treated the same as a trespass. There shouldn't be separate and more serious penalties for carrying a gun into a "gun free" zone.

Now, public property is a different story. I'll be darned if I can conjure up any justification for the government denying us the rights guaranteed to us in our Constitution. I see no justification for banning guns from public property. In fact, it flies in the face of the very reason the 2nd Amendment was included in our Constitution in the first place. An armed populace is to keep government under control. So, I see banning guns from Federal, State, and local government properties as a serious infringement of our rights. What's next, freedom of speech? How would you like that? You could say what you want on the street, but not in the City Council chambers. Try that one on for size.

[Bill of Rights]

No question and full agreement, George, but I get there in what appears to be a different way than you do (not better or worse, just different). I didn't differentiate because in the final analysis, who owns public property? The governmental entity, yes, but if I may quote L. Neil Smith, quoting Mary Ross-Byrd, "All rights are property rights", including and beginning with the absolute ownership of one's own life. As these rights are granted by our Creator, only people have rights. "Governments are instituted among men", our Founders say, which means that we are government's (and governments') creator, but since we cannot grant rights, we give our governments "powers" instead, e.g. the power to make and enforce law, the power to tax, etc. There is no power to own property; that is a right, and thus, government owns no property, but rather manages certain propertys for us (or more grammatically incorrectly, for We, the People). Since that gov't building belongs in small part to me, I should have every single one of my rights while there.

Where in the Constitution is it permitted to mandate a permit for the practice of the right of peaceable assembly? For the redress of grievance? For the ownership, possession, or carrying (bearing) of weapons? Will we soon need to ask our servant's (government's) permission to speak freely, to print what we wish, to worship as we see fit? What about to be secure in our persons, papers, and effects? Have a speedy trial? Not incriminate ourselves in court? Not be subject to cruel and/or unusual punishment? The list goes on and on... and indeed, how many of those rights that we have have we already lost to one degree or another?

I submit that we have the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, however along with that right goes the responsibility for that action-if someone irresponsibly does this and people are injured or killed in the resultant panic, whoever performed the action is liable and responsible.

Just laws are violated when there is injury, death, or loss of property or liberty (i.e. confinement by other than due process; kidnapping) Unjust and/or unConstitutional laws, being repugnant to the Constitution, are null and void, if I recall Marbury v. Madison Unfortunately, I don't know anyone with either the cash or the stones to be the test case and take the chance that SCOTUS might (very slim "might") agree to hear the case on appeal, though CCW in a federal courthouse could very easily be within their appellate jurisdiction.

I welcome thoughts on these issues, and note here the standard disclaimers, IANAL and TINLA:
I Am Not A Lawyer
This Is Not Legal Advice

Blessings,
M

[Genghis77]

I once worked for Morton - Thiokol in (loosely speaking because it's about 45 miles out of town) Brigham City Utah. A huge acreage and gun free zone. Makers of the solid propellant Space Shuttle motors. You really didn't want guns there. In fact only perimeter guards had guns. If something happened inside it would be dealt with unarmed. Smoking, lighters, wristwatches and a whole slew of other things were prohibited. Matter of fact in my work area I either had to be born with it or have it company issued. And believe me you wanted those policies. Little sparks from static have been known to create 1/2 diameter craters there. Thankfully, just 3 incidences during their history. One of them threw a metal girder about 28 miles and scored a bullseye right through a water tower in Tremonton Utah.