America's most gun friendly states

[tattedupboy]

I'm going to start this thread by giving my top ten list of most gun friendly states, based on a variety of factors, but primarily on what can or cannot be carried, and how easy it is to legally carry.

1. Arizona: Without a doubt, Arizona is the most weapons friendly state in America. An Arizona concealed weapons permit is exactly that, and it allows the carrying of handguns, long guns, class III weapons that are legally owned (including hand grenades), as well as knives, pepper spray, and expandable batons. Arizona also allows unlicensed open carry of all these weapons, whether in a vehicle or on foot. No other state is as liberal as Arizona in what people are allowed to carry. Furthermore, there are no magazine capacity restrictions, it is shall-issue, and it honors CCW permits from every state.

2. Vermont: This state has the best carry laws of any state in America. Unlike many of the states out west that allow unlicensed open carry, Vermont also allows concealed carry without a permit, for both residents and nonresidents. In Vermont, there are very few places that are off limits and schools are not one of them (for nonstudents). Like Arizona, there are no magazine capacity restrictions, and it is Class III friendly.

3. Alaska: Like Vermont, Alaska does not require a permit to carry either openly or concealed. Unlike Vermont, however, Alaska offers residents the option of getting a permit to be used for Alaskans who travel to other states and wish to carry. Alaska has slightly more off limits places than Vermont, requires carriers to notify police if they're carrying, and even requires anyone who is carrying to notify residents whose homes they enter that they are carrying. Besides those drawbacks, Alaska is otherwise a pretty good gun state by virtue of the fact that it is shall-issue/no permit required, is class III friendly, and has no magazine capacity restrictions.

4. Idaho: Open carry friendly, shall issue, extremely cheap CC permit
($10), no magazine capacity restrictions, Class III friendly, and honors permits from all 50 states.

5. Wyoming: Also open carry friendly, shall issue, no magazine capacity restrictions, Class III friendly.

6. South Dakota: Open carry friendly, shall issue, cheap permit, no magazine capacity restrictions, Class III and NFA friendly, and honors CCW permits from every state.

7. New Hampshire: I really wanted to put New Hampshire higher on this list, but, nevertheless, it is open carry friendly (for pedestrians), a concealed carry permit is extremely cheap ($10 for residents, $20 for nonresidents), and no training is required to obtain a permit.

8. Montana: Typical of western states, Montana is open carry friendly, car carry friendly, has very few off limits places, and honors most states' concealed carry permits.

9. Virginia: Open carry friendly friendly. What keeps Virginia from being ranked higher is its one handgun per month law for people without permits, and its restrictions on high capacity magazines and handguns that have threaded barrels. Otherwise, Virginia is shall issue and is perhaps the most open carry friendly state in America.

10. Florida: Despite its prohibition on open carry, Florida has, in many ways revolutionized the concealed carry movement in this country. While not the first state to become shall issue, it was the first big state to allow it, as well as becoming the first state to actually pass a law not to require people threatened outside their homes or vehicles to retreat before using deadly force (a.k.a the stand your ground law/Castle Doctrine law).

[HairyEyeball]

I have to disagree on a few counts, judging by both your inclusion of Arizona as the most firearm-friendly state and the low ranking of Virginia: From your explanation, it appears your criteria were too limited. While Arizona currently is among the least restrictive States, I have spoken to people - formerly active in the Virginia Citizens Defense League - who moved here from Virginia, thinking that they were relocating to a more 'firearms-friendly' State only to find that they lost some of their rights in the process.

Some examples: In Virginia, armed citizens can sit down for a meal, order a beer with their burger or a bottle of wine with dinner, enjoy, pay and leave. In Arizona, it is still illegal to bring a firearm into any establishment that possesses a license to serve alcohol. In Arizona, from 1966 to 2006, if you were forced to shoot an attacker in justifiable self defense, you were presumed guilty and the onus was on you to 'prove' that you acted in self defense (we have an individual who was the 'poster boy' for that legislation, and to whose case it was specifically intended to apply, found guilty of 'aggravated self defense' - there's no other way to describe it - and still incarcerated). In fact, until 2002 or 03, the 'Earp Law' - all firearms must be surrendered when entering town - was still on the books and enforceable in Tombstone.

While Arizona is 'improving', primarily through the efforts of the Arizona Citizens Defense League and our friends (and members, including the President of the AZ Senate and Speaker of the AZ House) in the legislature, we have a Governor whose anti-freedom positions are a matter of public record, and who has repeatedly vetoed pro-rights legislation. The flood of anti-liberty clones flocking from the 'rust belt' and escaping Mexifornia is also a problem, especially when it includes those who join various law enforcement agencies and will pull a vehicle over for no reason beyond 'felony bumper sticker', or disarm a citizen (at gunpoint if deemed 'necessary') because (to quote a patrol officer I had the displeasure of encountering) "Nobody speaks to me widda gun."

Not disputing that (as far as rights go) we're good, we're just not that good...yet.

[Bill of Rights]

I would be curious where Indiana falls on your list, tattedupboy.

Lifetime permit
Recognizes any permit
No gun or mag capacity restrictions
Carry restrictions in 11 places, (six are pre-k & k-12 school related)
Show permit on request (rather than on police contact)
Castle Doctrine
Carry in state parks
LTC issued at 18

We still have some work to do on our laws, but we're doing pretty good so far.

Thanks for doing this list and the other as well!

Blessings,
B

[bplv]

Why stop at 10? Why not rank all the states? Illinois for #50? (Since D.C. isn't a state.)

[tattedupboy]

I have to disagree on a few counts, judging by both your inclusion of Arizona as the most firearm-friendly state and the low ranking of Virginia: From your explanation, it appears your criteria were too limited. While Arizona currently is among the least restrictive States, I have spoken to people - formerly active in the Virginia Citizens Defense League - who moved here from Virginia, thinking that they were relocating to a more 'firearms-friendly' State only to find that they lost some of their rights in the process.

Some examples: In Virginia, armed citizens can sit down for a meal, order a beer with their burger or a bottle of wine with dinner, enjoy, pay and leave. In Arizona, it is still illegal to bring a firearm into any establishment that possesses a license to serve alcohol. In Arizona, from 1966 to 2006, if you were forced to shoot an attacker in justifiable self defense, you were presumed guilty and the onus was on you to 'prove' that you acted in self defense (we have an individual who was the 'poster boy' for that legislation, and to whose case it was specifically intended to apply, found guilty of 'aggravated self defense' - there's no other way to describe it - and still incarcerated). In fact, until 2002 or 03, the 'Earp Law' - all firearms must be surrendered when entering town - was still on the books and enforceable in Tombstone.

While Arizona is 'improving', primarily through the efforts of the Arizona Citizens Defense League and our friends (and members, including the President of the AZ Senate and Speaker of the AZ House) in the legislature, we have a Governor whose anti-freedom positions are a matter of public record, and who has repeatedly vetoed pro-rights legislation. The flood of anti-liberty clones flocking from the 'rust belt' and escaping Mexifornia is also a problem, especially when it includes those who join various law enforcement agencies and will pull a vehicle over for no reason beyond 'felony bumper sticker', or disarm a citizen (at gunpoint if deemed 'necessary') because (to quote a patrol officer I had the displeasure of encountering) "Nobody speaks to me widda gun."

Not disputing that (as far as rights go) we're good, we're just not that good...yet.

Obviously, no state is perfect, and there are some states, such as Utah and Indiana, that I did not like leaving off this list. I would welcome anyone to provide their own top ten list as well. However, all things considered, I stand by my belief in Arizona being the country's most gun friendly state; what other state do you know of where it is perfectly legal to carry just about anything concealed with a permit or openly without one? While Alaska and Vermont have the nation's best carry laws, their carry laws apply only to handguns.

[Bill of Rights]

Obviously, no state is perfect, and there are some states, such as Utah and Indiana, that I did not like leaving off this list.

You didn't really leave them off, you just only counted as far as 10 so far. :) (only liberals can't count higher than 20 without being arrested for indecent exposure :lol: ) In any event, I'm just curious where we fall in your "ranking". If you don't want to go beyond 10, that's OK, too.

Blessings,
B

[junglebob]

Why stop at 10? Why not rank all the states? Illinois for #50? (Since D.C. isn't a state.)
I don't think we should be quite at 50, close maybe since we have no concealed carry. However we might edge out Wisconsin and Hawaii or at least Hawaii. Technically Hawaii has concealed carry, but you can probably count on the fingers of one hand with some left over those who have been issued one. Hawaii folks can correct me, but some of you have alluded to this. I was in Maui a couple of years ago and considered taking my handgun, but you are restricted to taking it to a range or gun shop for repairs. You also have to register it with the police within 3 days I believe. At least us Illinois residents have "fanny pack transport", transport it to Ohare airport if you want and fly out (check it in with baggage of course), interstate rest areas, and churches. I'm sure there are other places like that, where other states prohibit firearms even if cased and unloaded. Wisconsin has open carry, but someone was arrested for conceal carrying in his own business a few years back and techically you could have been arrested in your own home. The state supreme court did rule in that business mans favor, one of the reasons his business had been robbed 3 times and someone was killed there. Opencarry.org doesn't list Illinois as one of the 5 with the worst firearms laws either, so maybe we are number 45.
You will of course run into some pesky firearm ordinances aroung Chicago.

I'll put a plug in for Kentucky. All other states permits are honored. A loaded handgun can be kept in a glovebox without a permit. Open carry is also legal without a permit.

[Stubob]

This is a great topic.

Opencarry.org gave states a gold star or other measurments to the states based upon how they have the open carry laws.

voting on the States in order would be a great thing, but it might be easier to come up with a standard - like -

Alaska, Vermont - Bald Eagle -Great laws
AZ, Ill, Montana - Griz
DC - Dodo bird -

just an idea - Animals would not have to be used either, but just names -

But putting the states into the groups would be easier. the top ten is a great idea.

[HairyEyeball]

It may be a good idea, but to have any valid consensus, we'd have to set clear and specific criteria and categories, so we'd all be on the same page. Just as a 'ball park' suggestion, I'd start with:

1. Open Carry
2. 'Shall Issue'/Ease of Obtaining CCW
a) Under Whose Authority (Local Sheriff, County Judge, State Agency)?
3. 'Designated Victim'/Prohibited Carry Zones
a) Provision for 'Safe Storage' in such zones
4. Recognition of Out-Of-State CCW
5. Vehicle Transport
6. Class III Regulations
7. State Preemption and Uniformity
8. Ammunition and/or Magazine Restrictions
9. Class, Type or Caliber Restrictions

- and again, these are just suggestions, in no particular order of preference. It might also be interesting to discover what a State's actual laws say, as opposed to how they may be enforced.

Oh, and as long as the Toxic Waste State (NJ) is included, nobody else has a prayer of being #50: Among other idiocies, every round of hollow point ammunition counts as a separate possession felony (8 in the magazine of a 1911 and 1 'up the pipe' = 9 felony counts, plus the firearm, plus spare mags, plus any loose rounds), and legislation requiring all firearms sold to be of a type not 'yet' available.

[Bill of Rights]

Oh, and as long as the Toxic Waste State (NJ) is included, nobody else has a prayer of being #50: Among other idiocies, every round of hollow point ammunition counts as a separate possession felony (8 in the magazine of a 1911 and 1 'up the pipe' = 9 felony counts, plus the firearm, plus spare mags, plus any loose rounds), and legislation requiring all firearms sold to be of a type not 'yet' available.

I have not looked at this yet, but are you sure that mere possession of JHPs in NJ is felonious? Tattedupboy's post indicated that there was no law against possession, but actual use was restricted to LEOs.

Off to check it out now.

Blessings,
B

[HairyEyeball]

The first reference I'd heard was regarding a woman from (I think) Connecticut who was arrested for carrying a concealed handgun (with a valid CT CCW) in New Jersey. The judge suspended her sentence on the handgun charge, but not on the hollow points - one count for each round. A search turned up numerous accounts of charges for 'illegal' hollow point rounds over and above any firearms and additional criminal charges.

[Bill of Rights]

Interesting. I found that one may have "hollow nose" ammunition in one's home, on private property, or enroute to one of those either from one to the other or from the store to one of the permitted places. It is acceptable to have such ammo if one is a hunter, but otherwise, the text found at http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/charges/weapons16.doc indicates that one may not possess any ammo like this.

I also noted the following instructions to the jury:
To reiterate, the three elements of this offense are that:

1. S in evidence is (a hollow nose or dum-dum bullet)[or](body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition).
2. The defendant possessed, or had under (his/her) control, S in evidence.
3. That the defendant acted knowingly.

If you find that the State had proven all these elements beyond a reasonable doubt, then you must return a verdict of guilty. On the other hand, if you find that the State has failed to prove any of these elements beyond a reasonable doubt, then you must return a verdict of not guilty.

It would seem the person speaking has never heard of "Jury Nullification".

Blessings,
B

[junglebob]

The first reference I'd heard was regarding a woman from (I think) Connecticut who was arrested for carrying a concealed handgun (with a valid CT CCW) in New Jersey. The judge suspended her sentence on the handgun charge, but not on the hollow points - one count for each round. A search turned up numerous accounts of charges for 'illegal' hollow point rounds over and above any firearms and additional criminal charges.
It looks like New Jersey beats Illinois for the worst gun laws, except when it comes to concealed carry. I can go into the local Walmart and buy 9mm hollowpoints. I don't imagine many folks in N.J. get permits unless they are famous, rich or politically connected.

[45Fan]

Here you go:
http://www.stategunlaws.org/

The "Brady Bunch" did it for you. Just look through here, the lower the grade the better. I am very proud to say MO has a D+ and we should be at a D- or F soon. They have not updated since we did away with our stupid Permit To Aquire for handguns.

I emailed them asking that they please review our new law and give us the F we deserve! We worked hard for it and really think we deserve it! :D

Hey, you can find good in everybody! :lol: :lol:

[ccadmin]

Having the Brady camp give your state an F really is a great compliment. I will take some time to look at this weekend.

I really like the idea of a standard for our states. I like the idea of using the Brady scale and saying a F is a Fine, Fantastic, Friendly Gun State - ......

D - Damn Great place to live
A - Absent from the human race.

[45Fan]

Having the Brady camp give your state an F really is a great compliment. I will take some time to look at this weekend.

I really like the idea of a standard for our states. I like the idea of using the Brady scale and saying a F is a Fine, Fantastic, Friendly Gun State - ......

D - Damn Great place to live
A - Absent from the human race.

Yup! :wink:

[junglebob]

This is a great topic.

Opencarry.org gave states a gold star or other measurments to the states based upon how they have the open carry laws.

voting on the States in order would be a great thing, but it might be easier to come up with a standard - like -

Alaska, Vermont - Bald Eagle -Great laws
AZ, Ill, Montana - Griz
DC - Dodo bird -

just an idea - Animals would not have to be used either, but just names -

But putting the states into the groups would be easier. the top ten is a great idea.
I don't think that Opencarry.org's rating of the states is strictly on open carry laws. If you look at 4 states, N.J. N.Y. Maryland and Hawaii, that are rated by them as being among the 5 worst states, Maryland and Hawaii allow open carry with a permit. They do however say if you tried it you could expect to lose your permit. I'm wondering what the other state is on their 5 worst states list. I haven't been able to figure it out. Its not California, Wisconsin or Illinois. Now Wisconsin law does allow open carry, but I lived there 31 years and never saw it. The concensus seems to be if you try it most places you may be arrested. Illinois only allows open carry in unincorporated rural areas. I haven't seen it outside of a friend who open carried on his own land, in the country. He was walking along the road one day when I was there and a state patrol car came along and slowed down, appearing to be stopping, until he stepped on to his own land. This was in Southern Illinois where things are fairly laid back concerning firearms, for Illinois that is.

Anyone have a guess on the 5th state rated among the worst by opencarry.org?

[snoball]

It may be a good idea, but to have any valid consensus, we'd have to set clear and specific criteria and categories, so we'd all be on the same page. Just as a 'ball park' suggestion, I'd start with:

1. Open Carry
2. 'Shall Issue'/Ease of Obtaining CCW
a) Under Whose Authority (Local Sheriff, County Judge, State Agency)?
3. 'Designated Victim'/Prohibited Carry Zones
a) Provision for 'Safe Storage' in such zones
4. Recognition of Out-Of-State CCW
5. Vehicle Transport
6. Class III Regulations
7. State Preemption and Uniformity
8. Ammunition and/or Magazine Restrictions
9. Class, Type or Caliber Restrictions

- and again, these are just suggestions, in no particular order of preference. It might also be interesting to discover what a State's actual laws say, as opposed to how they may be enforced.

Oh, and as long as the Toxic Waste State (NJ) is included, nobody else has a prayer of being #50: Among other idiocies, every round of hollow point ammunition counts as a separate possession felony (8 in the magazine of a 1911 and 1 'up the pipe' = 9 felony counts, plus the firearm, plus spare mags, plus any loose rounds), and legislation requiring all firearms sold to be of a type not 'yet' available.

As he states, if you use consistent meaningful criteria to measure the states I think the list will look a little different. New Mexico would probably be in the top ten easily. Open carry- YES, CCW-YES, State Agency-YES, Recognizes Out of State CCW-YES, Vehicle Transport-YES, No ammo or mag restrictions-YES, only Federal Class III restrictions-YES, etc.

[Eagle Five Zero]

This is a good discussion. I'd put any Open Carry State fairly high on the list, and I'd treat any 'May-Issue' state as down on the bottom.