Conceal Carry question: Restaurants that serve Alcohol

[lildobe]

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into ... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose.

The way I read this, as long as I stay out of the bar area of the restaurant, I'm OK, right?

I'm going to Florida for a couple days after Christmas and I want to be perfectly clear on the carry law there before I do.

TIA

[Bill of Rights]

That's how I would read the portion you posted, but IANAL and TINLA. I would suggest that you either contact an attorney licensed in FL, a cop down there, or call the Attorney General's office to ask.

Good luck!

Blessings,
B

[lildobe]

I would suggest that you .. contact ... a cop down there... to ask.

Heh... I've learned never to ask a cop about gun laws.... I first asked my friend who's an officer in Florida. He is a fairly competent officer... his reaction:"It's illegal for a citizen to carry in a bar? Wow, I didn't know that - I never paid attention to the CC laws becasue as a LEO I'm Exempt." (I mentioned that perhaps he SHOULD becasue he may be called upon to enforce them one day... but anyway)

That and both gnbrotz from the PAFOA and my own experiences with LEO's and Open Carrying of firearms...
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/11309-hassled-polls-ocing.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/11959-hassled-restaurant-oc.html

So... yeahhhh... I think I'll call the lawyer that I used to use down there and ask him... :roll:

I was hoping that maybe there was a member here from Florida that could give me some resident perspective... Maybe I'll poke around and see if I can't find a Florida specific forum to ask in too.

Thanks Anyway, BoR's!

[Bill of Rights]

Y'know... While I should know better, I still expect that on a subject as hotly debated as this, that's an area where police especially should know, if not the surrounding state laws, at least their local ones. Little things like the legality or not of open carry, the places one can and cannot carry-granted, there are an awful lot of laws to know, and they change on a regular basis, but this is the profession they chose, and in my view, that's one of the demands of it. I don't expect EMTs and paramedics to know off the top of their heads any and every disease process and every possible way that all of them could show up, but I expect them to know the things they're going to see on a regular basis.

Am I being unrealistic here?

Blessings,
B

[lildobe]

I don't expect EMTs and paramedics to know off the top of their heads any and every disease process and every possible way that all of them could show up, but I expect them to know the things they're going to see on a regular basis.

Am I being unrealistic here?


You aren't being unrealistic at all!

And as an EMT, I can say that while I'm not REQUIRED to know every possible disease out there, everyone seems to treat me like a doctor and ask me to diagnose their problems for them - rather then do my job. That job is keeping them alive on the trip TO a hospital to see a doctor who can patch them up.

In the case of a police officer, it's a little different. While they certainly aren't judges or lawyers, they DO need to know the laws that they are charged with enforcing. ESPECIALLY the serious ones such as gun carry. But line up 10 cops from different jurisdictions in a state with Uniform Firearms Laws (Like PA for example, which has full preemption) and you will find that the majority of them either plain don't KNOW the Firearms code or have wrong information about it. Ask the same group about traffic laws, however, and you'll get uniform answers.

An officers knowledge of the laws is not in any way related to how serious the offenses are - rather - it is proportional to the amount that they enforce said laws.

Could you imagine how much LESS violent crime there would be if the police spent less time ticketing speeders and more time investigating CRIME?

I understand the need for traffic enforcement... hell, I've even been known to ask for a special patrol to watch for chronic violations before becasue they were dangerous and were going to cause an accident. However I DON'T think that the police need to be sitting in the median of a 4-lane highway that most people already speed on, making those who DO speed slam on their breaks and cause a traffic hazard just so that they can write a few extra tickets that month.

But I digress...

Our best bet as gun owners is to know the laws of our state (and wherever you might be traveling to) like the back of your hand. I keep a copy of the PA UFA in my wallet all the time, and I know it backwards and forwards INCLUDING the case law that has shaped how it can be enforced.

I am not a lawyer myself. However; I have taken the time to educate myself so that I can at least *know* when I am right or wrong in an encounter with the police - and by carrying a copy of the UFA I hope that I can educate the officers I come in contact with. This was the case with one of the three officers in my incident - however he was the junior man and, well, his opinion didn't carry much weight with the bullies...

[cranners99]

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into ... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose.

The way I read this, as long as I stay out of the bar area of the restaurant, I'm OK, right?

I'm going to Florida for a couple days after Christmas and I want to be perfectly clear on the carry law there before I do.

TIA

That is exactly how it was explaind on my FL CCW Course. If you sit in the 'food' area of a restaurant you will be fine. The 'bar area' is usually defined by a low wall etc. and it's a no no in there.

HTH

[lildobe]

That is exactly how it was explaind on my FL CCW Course. If you sit in the 'food' area of a restaurant you will be fine. The 'bar area' is usually defined by a low wall etc. and it's a no no in there.

Ahh! Thank you! :)

That is what I was hoping.

[3gigabytes]

lildobe;

I believe your interpretation is correct. In an establishment with separate bar and restaurant, you may carry (with a valid permit) concealed in the restaurant but not in the bar. It is technically illegal for you to merely walk through the bar while carrying. If the restaurant and bar are not separate - stay out.

Just an FYI - other places in FL that you may NOT carry concealed even with a permit include:
1) Any police station or facility
2) Any jail, prison, or detention facility
3) Any courthouse or courtroom (unless allowed by a duely authorized judge)
4) Any government meeting involving the governing body of a school board, county commission, city commission, or special district
5) Any meeting of the Legislature or any of its committees
6) Any polling place
7) Any elementry school, secondary school, college, or university "facility". The term "facility" is taken to mean buildings and structures so streets and parking lots are probably OK (for colleges and universities at least). WRT gradeschools - don't conceal/carry - secure the pistol in your vehicle (preferably unloaded and in a locked case in your trunk) when on elementry or secondary school grounds.
Eight) Any athletic event - school, college or professional. The only exception is if the "event" is related to firearms (i.e. shooting competitions)
9) Inside the passenger portion of any airline terminal (DUH!)
10) Any other place that firearms are prohibited by Federal law including any federal office or building - places like a post office, IRS office, social security office. Interestingly BANKS are not federal buildings and you may (generally) legally carry in a bank with a valid CWP.
11) (Last but not least - you gotta love this one) You can't carry in a house of prostitution, crack house, or place of illegal gambling as these constitute "public nuisances" under F.S. 823.05

As a last bit of info - some buildings have posted signs prohibiting firearms on the premises (some shopping malls, hospitals, etc) - it is best to not carry in these locations as well...

Enjoy the sunshine state! :)

P.S.: Where are you going to be visiting in FL?

[lildobe]

lildobe;
Just an FYI - other places in FL that you may NOT carry concealed even with a permit include:

I knew all of those... they are pretty clear. Just the restaurant one was a little fuzzy.

P.S.: Where are you going to be visiting in FL?

I actually just got back home yesterday :D :D :D