Open Carry vs Concealed Carry

[VegasGeorge]

I've always been puzzled about this issue. Why is open carry frowned upon, and concealed carry the accepted norm? Wouldn't it be better for everyone involved to see who was carrying? I don't see any down side to open carry. I know that in open carry states lots of folks open carry in the smaller communities. But, in the larger cities you almost never see it. It's legal to open carry here in Las Vegas, but I've lived here 7 years now, and I've never seen anyone open carry around town. In contrast, I personally know a lot of people with CCWs who carry concealed regularly. Open carry is a lot easier and more comfortable. Face it, hiding a rosco is a pain!

[ccadmin]

This is a great point - My Dad went to school in a one room school house and rode his horse. Every kid wore their guns to school because of the wild animals and when they got to school they hung the gun on the back of the room until school was over. That is back when kids respected life.

It is kind of odd that CCW is the norm. Now when I see a gun on a open hip, I am looking for a badge. I hope that he or she is a law enforcement person.

Personally I think that we should allow several types of people in our society to wear guns openly. For Example pilots. The Israeli Airline has never been high-jacked.

In the west it is a little easier to see people wearing guns as they are out in the woods, in towns, people get nervous.

Anyone else with other feelings?

[Stubob]

VegasGeorge - Great question - I found this site while out nosing around. It has the map of what states allow open carry.

It would be nice to hear from folks in those states. :)

http://www.opencarry.org/

[zombie]

Open carry is a tricky subject. For as many reasons to carry open, there ar just as many reasons to carry concealed. While open carry may act as a deterrent, it may just as well make you a target. Open carry can be an excellent opportunity to educate folks in your community on the rights of citizens to keep and bear arms and the responsibilities of citizens to NOT be victims, open carry could very well draw attention of the local law enforcement due to folks who have an unrational fear of firearms or folks who don't know or understand the laws in your area or from bad guys who will view you as an individual who must be taken out first. Some times ingnorance IS bliss.

I personally generally carry concealed but if I'm working around the house, I'll open carry. On those times, I don't sweat it if I need to run down to the store without covering it up.

[VegasGeorge]

I personally generally carry concealed but if I'm working around the house, I'll open carry. On those times, I don't sweat it if I need to run down to the store without covering it up.

Interesting take on the situation. Where are you, Zombie, what size community?

[zombie]

Southeastern Vermont. Small, rural community with some extremely liberal politics.

[Standing Wolf]

I carry openly all day long in the combination gun shop and range where I work. I carry openly about half the time I'm not at work.

Very few people notice I'm carrying even when the gun is a pre-agreement Smith & Wesson model 629 .44 magnum. Nobody's ever hassled me. One or two of the few people who've noticed I'm carrying have asked questions, which I consider an opportunity to carry the message of liberty.

[cranners99]

Virginia has it that you can Open carry or go CCW with a permit. However even with a CCW Permit you must open carry in a bar.

[Bill of Rights]

Open carry is a tricky subject. For as many reasons to carry open, there ar just as many reasons to carry concealed. While open carry may act as a deterrent, it may just as well make you a target. Open carry can be an excellent opportunity to educate folks in your community on the rights of citizens to keep and bear arms and the responsibilities of citizens to NOT be victims, open carry could very well draw attention of the local law enforcement due to folks who have an unrational fear of firearms or folks who don't know or understand the laws in your area or from bad guys who will view you as an individual who must be taken out first. Some times ingnorance IS bliss.

I personally generally carry concealed but if I'm working around the house, I'll open carry. On those times, I don't sweat it if I need to run down to the store without covering it up.

Zombie, No argument with any of your points. My major concern if I ever do decide to OC will be weapon retention: That is, if it's out in the open where it can be seen, it strikes me as an invitation to a gun-grab, and my secondary concern is as you stated, the BGs seeing me as the first target to drop.

Thanks for posting, and

Blessings,
M

[Raccoon]

Virginia has it that you can Open carry or go CCW with a permit. However even with a CCW Permit you must open carry in a bar.

Well, here you are not allowed to carry in a bar. You can carry where alcohol is not the major product sold, such as restaurants that serve alcohol, but not in a bar.

Open carry. . . . I would think that some people would be scared to see someone walk in with a gun on their hip. We do not have open carry, but if we switched over to it, there would be a time of getting used to it. Some people just panic. I would think that to avoid that, most people just go ahead and carry concealed.

Now here, if an establishment says you cannot bring a gun in, and they find out that you did, they only can ask you to leave. There is no bite in the law unless you refuse to leave. So even though the stores say no guns, you are still not going to get into any real trouble. And if you stop a robbery and it is a good shooting, I would bet that they would not argue that you should not have brought the gun into the store.

Also, here as the store owner, you can carry open or concealed on your property. So some store owners are armed and the gun stores all have the wait staff armed and open carrying. I think this is a big deterrent in and of itself.

[Genghis77]

In Arizona, guns concealed or open are to be surrendered to the bartender and returned upon leaving. This is often violated. Good law as alcohol and gunpowder are not the best of combinations. I have been in many Old West bars and witnessed the bullet holes in the ceiling, mirror, the naked lady picture and the ornate carved wood bar itself. Seems it was the best way to deal with the yahoos that would get liquered up and think they were Frank Dalton.

This deals with Arizona prior to the CCW law. I would often see people open carry that obviously were trying to display a tough guy image and possibly that of wanting trouble. Most often a person of small stature carrying a Dirty Harry type .44 mag. This was not typical, but did happen all too often. Arizona used to allow almost concealed. That is if you left a bit of the hilt exposed it was openly carried. Being too conspicuous probably gives a bit too much negative image, especially those leaning towards gun bans.

Open carry is legal in Oregon, but do it in Portland and you can depend on being stopped, detained and checked upon by police. And recently we had someone pull into the Post Office parking lot in my nearby town of 14,000. He had 2 hunting rifles in his pick-up rack. Police seized the weapons. The owner failed to read the PO posting that firearms are illegal to possess on Federal Property except by law enforrcement. He will also be facing a stiff sentence. I go to the VA hospital often and always make sure I have no weapons or even the ammunition. They are very explicit there that the penalty is 5 years in prison.

Also be aware that Walmart will prosecute for carring a weapon in their stores, concealed or open. CCW still is restricted on private property. It is up to the owner if they allow it. So beware!

[Bill of Rights]

Genghis:

A couple of points you made jumped out at me. You referred to a law that all guns must be surrendered to the bartender as a good law. With respect, I disagree, as the BGs will not do so, and that's the whole point of carrying; that when trouble strikes, we will have with us the tools to defend against it. I, for example, choose not to drink alcohol, yet if I read your post correctly, you're saying that I would have to disarm if I was visiting with friends who might be drinking, even if I had only water. No, this, I would call bad law, primarily because I think most of us would either choose to stay fully sober or would voluntarily leave our firearms safely secured, if we even went to a bar in the first place. (Of note, where I live there is no law prohibiting guns in bars, and we have few if any shootings in any given year in those places.)

As for the "little man/big gun" syndrome, I can only say, "If I'm compensating for something, why in the world would I choose a gun with a three inch barrel?" :lol:
Seriously, though, whether something creates a negative image is not something we can protect against, since that's a personal thing. To me, it creates a negative image to have those stupid ghostbuster signs with a gun in the middle, but no one's deferring to me on that. I'm not inclined to defer to the gun-banners either, except where mandated by law (and I'm doing what I can to change those, too!)

While I would never advise anyone to violate the law, carry at the post office is federal property, but this is where "concealed means concealed." and if no one has reason to see your gun, no one's the wiser. If they do, then it's a d@mn good thing you had it; the whole 'judged by 12 rather than carried by 6' thing.

Lastly, not all Wal Marts will prosecute non-LEOs for carrying there; I do that all the time and no one says a word. Too, I have a recording on my computer, purportedly from a district office of WalMart in Virginia, saying in essence, if you want to carry, that's your business, as long as you're not violating the law. Additionally, I think there was a story to this effect on the "news" pages of this site, in which the man so detained received a written letter of apology from the Knoxville, TN Chief of Police, for an officer on his dept. shaking the gentleman down.

I hope that this info is helpful, if not to you, then to someone.

Blessings,
M

[Stubob]

A wall Mart Shopper sent this in responce to:
Also be aware that Walmart will prosecute for carring a weapon in their stores, concealed or open. CCW still is restricted on private property. It is up to the owner if they allow it. So beware!

The sign says that any "Unlicensed" firearm -

http://carryconcealed.net/images/uploaded/wal-mart_in_texasbc.jpg

It would be good to find out what other Wal-Mart Shoppers have seen. I could not find a corporate policy.

Good job Genghis brining this up as there are lot of Wal-Mart Shoppers that have CCW Permits.

[cranners99]

I just found this about Walmart's policy: http://deadbangguns.com/Coop/WalMart2.html

[Genghis77]

Just re-read the weapons policy at the VA hospital which states both you and your vehicle are subject to search. Take your choice, but my bet is that an exposed weapon would have the Federal Police tell you to leave. Caught with a concealed one CCW or not, you're going to jail. Love to get a picture of the sign, but cameras are also prohibited. And the penalty, yes including possession of a loaded camera, is 5 years or more.

[VegasGeorge]

The key to understanding the Wal-Mart sign in the above photo is the phrase "unlicensed possession." Apparently, this Wal-Mart sign is not in an open carry State. Wal-Mart, of course, cannot create its own felonies. So, this sign is either wrong, or is just restating State law. Even in open carry States, you cannot legally conceal your weapon without a CCW permit. That is what the sign apparently refers to.

[Bill of Rights]

Genghis:
Got a camera phone?

George, Not to nit-pick, but does that statement (re: must have LTC to conceal even in OC states) apply to Alaska and Vermont as well?

Blessings,
M

[VegasGeorge]

George, Not to nit-pick, but does that statement (re: must have LTC to conceal even in OC states) apply to Alaska and Vermont as well?

Oh, picky, picky! :roll:

Seriously, I admit to just assuming that all 50 States require a permit for concealed carry. If Alaska and Vermont are exceptions, then so be it.

[Bill of Rights]

My apologies. I didn't think I was picking, but on going back and actually engaging brain, the answer I'll give myself on that is "DUH!!!" Neither state requires a carry permit at all, so that makes mine a stupid question.

It also means that it's just about time for bed, too.

Blessings,
M

[Genghis77]

Yes I do have a camera phone. And it stays at home when I go to the VA. I am not about to violate either the laws or patient confidientiality. I seem to detect that you are an advocate of circumventing or violating laws.

[Raccoon]

Just re-read the weapons policy at the VA hospital which states both you and your vehicle are subject to search. Take your choice, but my bet is that an exposed weapon would have the Federal Police tell you to leave. Caught with a concealed one CCW or not, you're going to jail. Love to get a picture of the sign, but cameras are also prohibited. And the penalty, yes including possession of a loaded camera, is 5 years or more.

Yes, the government is very picky about guns on their property. Federal properties trump everything else. It is unfortunate that these laws have not stopped the postal worker shootings, thus the term "going postal". It only serves to make the law abiding citizens unarmed prey for the badguys. IMHO.

[Lady Di]

Genghis77,

If I may respond to your comment to St. Michael re: "advocating breaking or circumventing" the law, I'd like to make a couple of points, the first one being that St. Michael is a law-abiding, productive citizen, and I'm proud to call him my friend.

Secondly, a look back at history tells us that breaking and circumventing laws was absolutely necessary in order to maintain and advance our liberties. It was illegal for revolutionaries to oppose King George but they did it any way. It was illegal for citizens to help escaped slaves, but many did it anyway. It was illegal to help Jews during the Holocaust, but thankfully many broke the law and did it anyway. You get the drift, I'm sure.

While I would not advocate carrying a weapon into a federal building, I would say that the laws restricting our rights to do so are unjust and unconstitutional. I would go so far as to say that it is the federal government that is breaking the law since the leaders in that government are the ones who are violating the 2nd amendment by passing unjust and unconstitutional laws.

This is part of what's wrong with our country, and don't get me wrong, because I don't think any one here falls into that category. But too many Americans sit back and allow our liberties to be trampled upon. We allow elected "leaders" to break the law. We need to call them into account for it. We allow our elected "leaders" to violate the very constitution that they have taken an oath to defend and uphold. Why should we consider ourselves lawbreakers for exercising our RKBA?

We have it backwards in this country. We are the masters; government is the servant. Education is the key. In order to restore sanity to our nation, we must educate the millions of sheeple in our country who believe that we are the servants and government is our master.

Thomas Jefferson said it best, "Unless the mass [of people] retains sufficient control over those intrusted with the powers of their government, these will be perverted to their own oppression...."

Thomas Jefferson was a fortune teller, and I'll not criticize anyone for excercising their 2nd amendment right no matter where they choose to do so.

[VegasGeorge]

I would go so far as to say that it is the federal government that is breaking the law since the leaders in that government are the ones who are violating the 2nd amendment by passing unjust and unconstitutional laws.

....too many Americans sit back and allow our liberties to be trampled upon. We allow elected "leaders" to break the law. We need to call them into account for it.

Yes, exactly! :evil:

[junglebob]

A wall Mart Shopper sent this in responce to:
Also be aware that Walmart will prosecute for carring a weapon in their stores, concealed or open. CCW still is restricted on private property. It is up to the owner if they allow it. So beware!

The sign says that any "Unlicensed" firearm -

http://carryconcealed.net/images/uploaded/wal-mart_in_texasbc.jpg

It would be good to find out what other Wal-Mart Shoppers have seen. I could not find a corporate policy.

Good job Genghis brining this up as there are lot of Wal-Mart Shoppers that have CCW Permits.
I was told that Walmart allows concealed carry in any state that it is allowed. I see the corporate policy says that you need a permit "awarded" by the state. Well here in Illinois the state doesn't award anyone with a carry permit. We do have the Firearm Owners ID card (FOID) which state law says allows you to transport a firearm unloaded in a case with a loaded magazine, often referred to as "fanny pack" carry. I would assume that under Walmart corporate policy I would be allowed to "fanny pack" in Walmart. I've never asked, I do it all the me. I do have a non-resident Pennsylvania handgun license, Pa is a state, should that count? Yes I know "fanny pack carry is not real concealed carry. It is legal and yes you may still get arrested. We are working on getting CCW legislation through, visit illinoiscarry.com if you want to help. Someone there mentioned this site.

Talking about open carry I find it interesting that in some states, like Wisconsin, though it is legal without a permit you will probably never see it. I lived there over 30 years and never recall seeing it. In Illinois you can carry a firearm in your place of business as well as your home. I understand there are some gun shop owners who open carry in Illinois.

[Bill of Rights]

Yes I do have a camera phone. And it stays at home when I go to the VA. I am not about to violate either the laws or patient confidientiality. I seem to detect that you are an advocate of circumventing or violating laws.

I seem to detect a tone of aloofness or disdain in your note.

I would never advise someone to break the law. To find a loophole to use legally to get what should be available anyway, yes. To contact lawmakers, absolutely, but to actually break a law will never be my advice to anyone. I'll say what I think. What you do with those thoughts is your choice.

I am an advocate of freedom. Taking a picture of a sign on a wall or a post, showing neither patients nor patient records is not a violation of confidentiality in any way, shape, or form. Your alternatives, as I see it, are either to ask the VA hospital legal office if you may take a photo of the sign with your phone, so as not to incite others to say, "Well, HE had a camera here the other day!", to take the picture and don't get caught, or to simply sit back, let them emplace moronic rules to be followed without question, and be content saying, "Baaaaaa".

And just to quell any thoughts to the contrary, my choice would likely be the first; working within the law to effect change.

Blessings,
M